Fixing Gleba Quality

[Flora green]

Most of the issues I have with Gleba could be fixed if Bioflux recycled into its ingredients (Yumako mash and Jelly) instead of recycling onto itself.
Currently the design of Gleba feels like a flaw/oversight on the quality system so much that I look to mods to fix the quality of life issues with the quality system for this planet.
It is a shame because the planet is an amazing experience when not interacting with the quality mechanic.

[malogoss]

It's not easy to make an orange from a pot of orange juice. Or a nice crunchy apple from an apple pie. I think that could be partly why recycling works that way for Bioflux.

Another thing I see is that it would be a way to kind of cheat the spoiling time of the ingredients, since Bioflux takes a while to spoil. And also that the previous spoil state of the ingredients is lost, so then what? You'd average it out I suppose, which also leads to possible mild exploits of the same nature.

Not to mention that not being allowed to rewind to the previous production step could very well be intended and planned, not an oversight at all.

But hey, you modded it, so now you get what you wanted, right? Have fun then!

[Flora green]

Originally posted by malogoss:

It's not easy to make an orange from a pot of orange juice. Or a nice crunchy apple from an apple pie. I think that could be partly why recycling works that way for Bioflux.

Another thing I see is that it would be a way to kind of cheat the spoiling time of the ingredients, since Bioflux takes a while to spoil. And also that the previous spoil state of the ingredients is lost, so then what? You'd average it out I suppose, which also leads to possible mild exploits of the same nature.

Not to mention that not being allowed to rewind to the previous production step could very well be intended and planned, not an oversight at all.

Due to the LDS shuffle existing I do not think balance is a good argument.
The only good questions to ask is if it is fun to work with, and if you have tried getting legendary Bioflux in any quantity you would know that the answer is no. If you tried making a production of legendary Stack Inserters you would basically only have one choice, and that is to build that item, recycle it and re-craft it. Building a normal quality gambler is not fun, not engaging.
The reason why I suggested that as a fix is because it is the easiest to implement by the devs. More interesting suggestions like quality seeds having some effect on the quality output of plants, would be harder to implement.
They had a chance to actually make quality unique and fun on Gleba with the harvesting mechanic, but instead we copy paste a quality gambler and we have the best possible solution for the planet.
Gleba would not stick out as a sore thumb if the quality system in the rest of the game matched how bad it is there.
Just feels like such a wasted opportunity.
They really need to fix Gleba especially since all my friends have decided to play with a mod that removes the planet entirely. Really indicates that there is an issue.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Flora green:

Due to the LDS shuffle existing I do not think balance is a good argument.
The only good questions to ask is if it is fun to work with, and if you have tried getting legendary Bioflux in any quantity you would know that the answer is no. If you tried making a production of legendary Stack Inserters you would basically only have one choice, and that is to build that item, recycle it and re-craft it. Building a normal quality gambler is not fun, not engaging.
The reason why I suggested that as a fix is because it is the easiest to implement by the devs. More interesting suggestions like quality seeds having some effect on the quality output of plants, would be harder to implement.
They had a chance to actually make quality unique and fun on Gleba with the harvesting mechanic, but instead we copy paste a quality gambler and we have the best possible solution for the planet.
Gleba would not stick out as a sore thumb if the quality system in the rest of the game matched how bad it is there.
Just feels like such a wasted opportunity.
They really need to fix Gleba especially since all my friends have decided to play with a mod that removes the planet entirely. Really indicates that there is an issue.

Oh, I think balance absolutely is an argument, but the other way around. LDS are problematic, not all the other items that can't be exploited as much.

It's nice that you were more specific on the reasons you'd change things. How many recipes are affected the same way stack inserters are though? And more importantly, is it really a problem, or just a personal preference of yours and a few others?

When you say "They really need to fix Gleba", that's a bit vague. What else is there that requires fixing, in your opinion?

I'm not judging you or your friends specifically, to each their preference, totally fine. It's always surprising to me though, that anyone would want Gleba removed, or spoilage removed, or many other similar things just gone. I'm not kidding when I'm saying this: Gleba is the only planet and the only content that justified buying SA for me, because it was the only planet that really felt different. New buildings with more module slots, integrated +50% prod, 4k spm being the new 500 spm, recycling scrap to get what you want, infinite lava, all that, I could not care less. Personal preference.

Fixing a game is one thing, and it can be done when a game needs it if the devs care enough. But changing the game's content because of the preferences of a small group of players means that in the end, the whole game gets redone because of how many such small distinct groups there are. And then anybody who liked something as it was can say goodbye to it, because someone else did not enjoy it. Do you see how that is impossible to solve for the devs?

Mods are a solution. Apparently your play group customised the game to their liking. That's perfect. What they removed from their game is enjoyed by others. I can see how and why Gleba splits players. I can see why some don't like it, you should see why others like it a lot.

[Chindraba]

The reason for no bioflux recycling is that bioflux is not an assembler recipe, it's a biochamber recipe.
Rather than taking my words, which get might long, directly from the Wiki:

The broad rule governing the recycler's ability to reverse a recipe is that it can only reverse recipes made in assembling machines of some type.

For whatever reason they have, the devs decided that for the purposes of the recycler's ability to recycle items, the electromagnetic plant counts as an "assembler".

That said, however, they have quite a few exceptions built in, both for what cannot be recycled even though it's a recipe for the assemblers, and what can be recycled even though it's not a recipe for the assembler. I don't know the reasons for adding exceptions for what can be recycled without being an assembler recipe. It 'looks' like the bulk of the exceptions are expensive stuff, like rail guns and BMDs, etc. The battery, while cheap, is kind of important in the Fulgora recycle system, so that one makes sense to have an override built in.

Since there's quite a list of overrides, both ways, adding one more probably wouldn't be too much work for the devs. I don't think it will happen, however, and it's probably not a big enough issue for someone to make a mod - which I'm guessing would be fairly simple to do as well.

I do suspect that the over all game balance, as the devs see it, is probably why they didn't add an exception for bioflux. Balance is not my specialty, not even close, so I'll never be able to explain, defend, or destroy any position someone else takes. That's just my guess.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Flora green:

The only good questions to ask is if it is fun to work with, and if you have tried getting legendary Bioflux in any quantity you would know that the answer is no. If you tried making a production of legendary Stack Inserters you would basically only have one choice, and that is to build that item, recycle it and re-craft it. Building a normal quality gambler is not fun, not engaging.

You can get legendary bioflux via upcycling capture bot rockets in fairly decent quantities, given that one capture bot rocket carries forward 20 bioflux.
It's crafted in an assembler, so 4 module slots - meaning the ideal distribution is 2 legendary productivity modules and 2 legendary quality modules, which averages a cycle of 80 crafts starting from normal quality to get one legendary quality output. But it's 20 bioflux per bot rocket. So it's 4 crafts per 1 legendary bioflux.

[Flora green]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Flora green:

The only good questions to ask is if it is fun to work with, and if you have tried getting legendary Bioflux in any quantity you would know that the answer is no. If you tried making a production of legendary Stack Inserters you would basically only have one choice, and that is to build that item, recycle it and re-craft it. Building a normal quality gambler is not fun, not engaging.

You can get legendary bioflux via upcycling capture bot rockets in fairly decent quantities, given that one capture bot rocket carries forward 20 bioflux.
It's crafted in an assembler, so 4 module slots - meaning the ideal distribution is 2 legendary productivity modules and 2 legendary quality modules, which averages a cycle of 80 crafts starting from normal quality to get one legendary quality output. But it's 20 bioflux per bot rocket. So it's 4 crafts per 1 legendary bioflux.

That is correct and that is the way I do it, however the rate at which you can get legendary compared to most other products is about 1/50th of the speed, making it take up so much of Gleba that the area is silly. Also legendary Stack inserters have basically only 1 pathway, and that is the classic copy paste quality gambler, which is extremely uninteresting. Everyone I know who have tried to do legendary megabases on Gleba have not had any kind words about it. That counts for every youtube/twitch channel that I've watched try it. People just agree that quality on Gleba is a mess, and could use some tweaks.
I just wish that some creative thought and effort was used on Gleba when it comes to Quality, but it just feels like having 2 mods made by two creators who did not communicate with each other.

[Flora green]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Mods are a solution. Apparently your play group customised the game to their liking. That's perfect. What they removed from their game is enjoyed by others. I can see how and why Gleba splits players. I can see why some don't like it, you should see why others like it a lot.

I love Gleba and that is the issue, because outside of doing legendary megabases, Gleba is up there as (one of) the best thing of the DLC. The issue is that it feels like Quality and Gleba are two mods made by two different people who never communicated with each other. And I like quality slightly more as a mechanic than I like Gleba. It is just a shame that they go so poorly together.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Flora green:

I love Gleba (...)

Glad you made that precision.

That was not the message I got until now. Especially when you brought your friends that delete Gleba from the game into the conversation. Turns out they have almost nothing in common with you.

[Flora green]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by Flora green:

I love Gleba (...)

Glad you made that precision.

I would not ask for some quality of life changes being made on some aspects of a planet if I did not love the rest of what it had to offer and felt it just could have been a lot better with a few changes. Because the first visit and the playstyle of the planet is great, but as soon as I tried to do any megabasing on the planet involving mass quality production it felt really bad, especially when it had such a massive potential to do something creative and awesome with that mechanic.