Group and drag things to new locations

[Thom Blair III]

Factorio is totally awesome! I get to play with things like they are legos. It'd be really cool maybe in VR too, like Minecraft is doing. But, anyway, thanks for the great game!

OMG! Grouping & dragging things to new locations would be SO cool, like you can do in Adobe Freehand/Illustrator. And if the pipes and belts etc would stretch to maintain their connections, like the train tracks can do. That'd be SO awesome! Totally! No time pressure because I know ideas are easy to say but take forever to program, but maybe in a few years or something.

[<unknown>]

Didn't what blueprint do exactly ?

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by <unknown>:

Didn't what blueprint do exactly ?

Yes, it is what blueprints do, except you have to disassemble everything after making blueprint, then use blueprint. If it is still not in right place, must disassemble everything again, and try again, and again, and again.

I want to drag the group without disassembling. And, I want pipes and transport belts to stay connected to thing not in blueprint.

[KatherineOfSky]

I think that would disrupt what the core of Factorio is about. There's a reason we have robot speed levels that need to be researched, etc.

This could also be a massive exploit... just imagine selecting your outer wall -- 3 tiles thick with 3 rows of lasers behind it. Power poles are auto-lengthened...

Drag that 300-tile long segment as a wave of destruction toward biter-ville! (I don't often get to use my laser cat emoticon!


In Factorio, space is functionally unlimited. If you need more space, just blueprint the whole structure and move it to somewhere where you have more area to build :-)

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

I don't often get to use my laser cat emoticon!

Yay! I know the feeling of having cool emoticons and wishing for a chance to use them! The pangs of waiting are real! XD

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

In Factorio, space is functionally unlimited. If you need more space, just blueprint the whole structure and move it to somewhere where you have more area to build :-)

Yes, that is true, but when I am first encountering a new mod, such as all of Angel's mods, I frequently find myself trying to figure out where to put what, how much space to leave between here and there, how many sets of each machine I need, etc. This all takes (me at least) quite a bit of experimentation with layouts, a lot more than I would like. For example, right now I am trying to figure out a good layout for making something useful out of tons of crushed stone, and I thought I left enough space, but then it turned out I didn't, even though I left half of the full normal zoom out screen area to work in.

Do you have any tutorials on how to research proper layouts and leave enough space for necessary experimentation? I think I'm doing it properly, but I still keep on running out of room and also keep regretting not being able to drag groups around.

Maybe if it would be an exploit, then that could be avoided by having a sandbox area/mode where people can experiment without effecting gameplay or disabling achievements. Thoughts?
:)

[KatherineOfSky]

Have you seen Helmod? https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Helfima/helmod

It gives you an in-game ratio planner that might help with planning a bit.

However..... in mid- to late-game with Bob's/Angels, just know that you can often go down to 1-2 machines for each item if you use the pure productivity modules + speed beacons. (Regular modules, not god modules ... Regular ones are still rather overpowered!)

Personally, I just leave a ton of space, and do what I normally do -- have a liquid bus for liquids, putting relevant storage/plants coming off like a regular main bus.

Ore processing does take a huge amount of space, especially in early/mid game.

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

Have you seen Helmod? https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Helfima/helmod It gives you an in-game ratio planner that might help with planning a bit.

Thanks! I'll check it out.
:)

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

Have you seen Helmod? https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Helfima/helmod

I finally restarted my game and the mod GUI appeared! (I thought I'd restarted enough ?) Anyway, wow! That looks complicated! Have you used it and liked it?

[Thom Blair III]

One major problem early on in the game though Katherine is that moving large numbers of items is only really efficient with construction robots, and they only come mid game, whereas I frequently am trying new mods in new games. So I have to use console commands to give me construction robots etc otherwise I'd have to manually move every single pipe segment by hand way too many times as I'm optimizing my designs.

I take it you don't encounter those problems? What is your playing style that you don't find that problematic? I'd like to know, because this moving things around is SO cumbersome. Any help or tutorials would be appreciated. :)

[Thom Blair III]

The only legitimate reason I can see for developers not wanting to introduce this feature is if they feel it is a waste of time and money if they feel the game is never going to bring in enough revenue to justify the expense. I hope Factorio doesn't end that way--it's a great game!

This game currently though feels like trying to use Photoshop without a selection tool. I think other people felt the same way about train tracks because someone invested a lot of time and energy to make that automated train track algorithm that allows you to move the planned path around yet maintain start and end points. That's the exact algorithm I feel could be such a boon to base design for moving clusters of buildings, pipes and belts.

But, I'm very interested to hear other people's ideas as to why it might not be a good idea for the game. I never would have thought of it being used as an exploit, as you pointed out. But even that exploit is still not much different from the turret crawl/creep, or do you feel differently?

I'm just trying to engage in friendly conversation and brainstorming for game development--I'm not trying to put down anyone or their ideas. I just want to say that since over text it's hard to convey the friendliness of my intentions. I just keep wanting Factorio to be even easier to use, that's all.
:)

[KatherineOfSky]

Unless I play completely vanilla, I add Nanobots. https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Nexela/Nanobots These are craftable robots which are consumable. (1 bot puts down 10 constructions). Also, there is Tiny Start: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Yehn/TinyStart

As to the game development -- I very much doubt the "shifting" idea will be added for the exploit reason above. Also, possibly, because planning is pretty important and a core part of the game. (If you notice, there is a very satisfying "plop" sound when you place a building :-) We are clearly not building on liquified sand!) If it was meant to be that easy to shift buildings, it would be called "Factory Architect" and take place on a drafting table!

Turret creep is an exploit which the devs are removing/mitigating in 0.15.

Also, early game robots will be added to vanilla, (IIRC in 0.15 as well).

My strategy is as I said above -- leave plenty of space, create a "bus" (prior to robot tech), etc. It helps if you wall in a LARGE area to experiment in, or just go peaceful. When I play Factorio, I'm very relaxed, and I generally don't get frustrated. Everything can be built in a step-by-step process.

Remember that your factory WILL NOT be perfect at the beginning. Do experiments, and then rearrange at late-game if desired. You can always build a "perfect" factory from scratch on your next playthrough after you've had experience with the mods.

Also, re: Helmod -- I haven't used it much, since it is new to me.

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

Unless I play completely vanilla, I add Nanobots. https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Nexela/Nanobots These are craftable robots which are consumable. (1 bot puts down 10 constructions). Also, there is Tiny Start: https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Yehn/TinyStart

Ok, thanks!

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

As to the game development -- I very much doubt the "shifting" idea will be added for the exploit reason above. Also, possibly, because planning is pretty important and a core part of the game. (If you notice, there is a very satisfying "plop" sound when you place a building :-) We are clearly not building on liquified sand!) If it was meant to be that easy to shift buildings, it would be called "Factory Architect" and take place on a drafting table!

Interesting! This is a perfect example of why I like to talk to others and see what they think, because I get so overwhelmed with my own ideas I have a hard time envisioning other viewpoints. Thank you.

Interesting they are getting rid of turret creep. And, early game robots sounds like a really great idea! Thank you for the info.

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

My strategy is as I said above -- leave plenty of space, create a "bus" (prior to robot tech), etc. It helps if you wall in a LARGE area to experiment in, or just go peaceful. When I play Factorio, I'm very relaxed, and I generally don't get frustrated. Everything can be built in a step-by-step process.

Ah! I tend to want to work as quickly as my mind does and it works too quickly too often. I wish I could be as relaxed as you...something I'd love to develop!

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

Also, re: Helmod -- I haven't used it much, since it is new to me.

Oh ok, thanks.

Thanks for all the conversation/thoughts. It helps me to see other people's perspectives so I don't get so set on my own ideas.

:)

[Thom Blair III]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

it would be called "Factory Architect" and take place on a drafting table!

Actually, that would be really cool! The planning and architecture is the major part of the game I like. I don't like the fighting parts. I just like piecing together all the different parts like a puzzle and making the most optimized designs. I really like the optimizing part of the game.