Bobs + Angels sucks?

[Your Majesty Padded Gamer]

I'm sorry to say, but Bobs + Angels is not a good mod pack for anyone.

I have about 150 hours into this game and I've beaten factorio one time. Got the rocket launched and everything. And I just can't get any enjoyment out of Bobs + Angels.

The problem with this mod pack is that the early game is fairly terrible. I don't know if the middle game is any better. But god, using filter spilters was a pain in the *** and wasn't much fun.

Then you have one of the biggest problems with Angels specifically. So you finally got iron and copper working. Simple right? Then you quickly realize that the copper is never used on anything and you don't have iron because it's being backed up. So you look for recipes that require copper. The problem is that every recipe that needs copper requires iron. Well that's a paradox, isn't it?

So basically, the mod creator uses vanilla recipes for a lot of items. The problem with vanilla recipes is that they obviously aren't balanced for modifications to the game. For example, all the mod creator would've had to do would be to double the rate at which you need copper for a lot of the recipes. That would be so bleeping simple to do, a blind programming monkey with a keyboard could've done it.

And then you get to mk 2. Which the ability to make a single resource by combining two ores together. The problem with this system is that it expects the player to rip their entire factory they spent hours on apart and start over from the begning. This was the point where I quit the mod forever and stopped playing.

Then you have the slag issue. The slag issue requires you to get sufuric acid which is the ninth circle of hell. Alternatively, you can crush the slag into crushed stones. But wait, crushing the slag will back up your stone supply and cause your iron/copper to halt.

There's just no winning at this modpack. Personally, I would rather pull my eyes out then play this again. And yeah, I can google tutorials and stuff. But honestly, I don't really feel compelled to. With the original vanilla Factorio, I felt encouraged to play more of it. But with Bobs + Angels, I feel disatified most of the time because 90 percent of the game isn't rewarding to the player.

[Your Majesty Padded Gamer]

İlk olarak KatherineOfSky tarafından gönderildi:

@Padded Gamer -- If you are unsure of how to play the mod, there are quite a few excellent YT series where you can learn.

Otherwise, it sounds like you are complaining for the sake of blackening the mods' reputations, which is not cool. These major mods have been balanced to the creators' desires, and are meant to be a puzzle to solve. They are not impossible, and MANY people enjoy playing them.

I'm voicing my personal opinion on the mod. How is that such a bad thing? Like now what? If I write a negative review on a game I disliked, I'm studdenly blackening the game's reputation.

And personally my opinions are valid. I mean anyone can agree that the early game is a slow slog through hell. And that's honestly why I don't enjoy it. Because the early game's progression is none-existent.

[fractalgem]

You're allowed to voice your opinion, just as much as we're allowed to say that presenting your opinion as absolute fact is wrong (the most blatant of which is "is not a good modpack for anyone" is objectively wrong since quite a few of us like it), and we're also allowed to point out that the solution to many of the things you consider unfair or unsolvable is to...well...

git gud.

[KatherineOfSky]

İlk olarak Padded Gamer tarafından gönderildi:

I'm voicing my personal opinion on the mod. How is that such a bad thing? Like now what? If I write a negative review on a game I disliked, I'm studdenly blackening the game's reputation.

It goes far beyong personal opinion. Statements like

İlk olarak Padded Gamer tarafından gönderildi:

The poor excuse of an early game with the limited ability to do anything expect watch your factory shut down is a sign of poor choices in basic balance.

İlk olarak Padded Gamer tarafından gönderildi:

I get that it's hard. But the difficulty and complexity comes from an unfair lack of balancing.

<snip>

And redoing yet and still, another ore system is BS.

<snip>

The other load of BS is the recipes

<snip>

You see, when I hear difficulty, I don't expect challenge that comes from many of the systems being unbalanced and vastly broken at times.

İlk olarak Padded Gamer tarafından gönderildi:

That would be so bleeping simple to do, a blind programming monkey with a keyboard could've done it.

... are inflammatory and made by an ill-informed experience. By your own admission, you didn't get very far into the modpack, and therefore didn't see any of the systems that use the byproducts that you found so offensive. You can't accuse the modmakers of making an unbalanced mod when you haven't bothered to see how it unfolds. You're being unfair to people who have worked hard on creating a major project, dismissing it out of hand.

You don't enjoy it, fine. It's clearly not for you. But many people DO enjoy both modpacks, and like the challenge of the balance that comes with them.

[Heathy]

the stone and slag problem isn't too bad my progress is kinda slow, i've been playing now 48hrs on this map and i've still only got 3 science automated, i might do military before 4, what i had to do to get rid of the stone and slag was to pipe it to a storehouse and have it on a continual output loop feeding to liquifiers, turn the slag and stone into slag slurry, feed that into filtration units, they need to have access to your coal so you set up some assembly machines grabbing coal and refreshing the coal filters then feeding them back into the filtration units. you can do this with long inserters and one or two cycles of coal filters it'll just take the empty ones grab coal refil them and throw them back at the filtration unit. after that its simply pipe the mineral sludge to crystallizers and choose your output. in some ways I think you have to do this because your going to have a interesting time getting titanium and fluorite for making hydrofluoric acid, at least its where I've been getting my titanium / silver & fluorite from anyway. but you can get nearly any of the main ores out of mineral sludge so its worth doing it to supplement whatever your lacking. you can do this with the geodes as well, smash them down into crystal dust and make crystal slurry, the output choices are the same afaik. i haven't got into gem polishing or sorting, maybe ill try it eventually but i think thats just a bit too much to tackle at this stage for me.

i still haven't setup multiple ore smelting yet, i've managed to blitz aluminium, zinc, brass and titanium, i still have to do silver gold and tungsten also have to do something with cobalt and then the alloys i've not even touched. its extremely time consuming, i had to use some console scripts to give me some breathing room but i think i am slowly getting there.

the slag and crushed stone are basically a miracle ore in angel+bobs, they can become any ore by the time I was able to setup my first 4 liquifiers it took a couple hours to chew through the stone i'd accumulated by that point but its reached almost an equilibrium i'm mining about as much stone as i get rid of. I don't have the overlay active atm so I can't take steam screenshots but it looks something like this https://imgur.com/a/WzA5q albeit thats just a small rock and slag clearer like anything it can be scaled up to mow through stone and slag.

[Kurt]

No. Angel's and Bob's are examples of rich, well-written, well maintained game play overhaul mods which meet the authors' design goals and objectives. If they aren't for you, don't play them. There are other, easier game play overhaul mods you could try instead... though with only 1 rocket launched, maybe you might try building a 1RPM factory in vanilla. Once you accomplish that, you might might have a completely different take on Angel's and Bob's.

[DeNarr]

Hmm, I was thinking of trying these out, but it looked like they may have just added artificial difficulty for no actual purpose. Seeing your post makes me feel like that is likely correct, so thanks for saving me the time of downloading the entire modpacks.

[Grossout]

İlk olarak DeNarr tarafından gönderildi:

Hmm, I was thinking of trying these out, but it looked like they may have just added artificial difficulty for no actual purpose. Seeing your post makes me feel like that is likely correct, so thanks for saving me the time of downloading the entire modpacks.

Well I would suggest you trying first with bobs mods, and if you like it maybe include angel for your next factory.

You are hell wrong saying they only add artificial difficulty. The thing with bob ( I haven't played a lot with angel so I'll be mainly talkin about bob) is that instead of challenge being just scaling up production vanilla style, the challenge comes from a lot more complex recipes. There is so much quality and so much more depth than in vanilla that I think they should be included in base game as some kind of modes.

You are doing a great disservice to yourself if you ignore these mods, you might get hundreds or even thousands of hours out of them (I myself have played about 100hours vanilla and 900 hours with bobs/angels)

Edit; I actually think that vanilla way of adding difficult is pretty lame, building the same stuff just bigger and bigger. To me; Factorio = Bobs mods (and now I have included angel also to get even more out of it)

Here's a ♥♥♥ of my bobs mods spaghetti base https://imgur.com/OMgyQ1N

[robert225]

İlk olarak DeNarr tarafından gönderildi:

Hmm, I was thinking of trying these out, but it looked like they may have just added artificial difficulty for no actual purpose. Seeing your post makes me feel like that is likely correct, so thanks for saving me the time of downloading the entire modpacks.

After 1200 hours of vanilla Factorio, I finally decided to have a go at Angels, and am thoroughly enjoying it so far. It is almost like a new game, and takes me back to 2 years ago when I was first trying to work out how to produce stuff in the vanilla game.

I am currently 5.5 hours into my first game, and have so far only just managed to get Steel Production going. I consider my previous vanilla factories to be well organised, but so far this is a shambles of spaghetti.

I would highly recommend at least trying it out.

I intend to complete this factory, and after that give Bobs a go too.

[fractalgem]

İlk olarak DeNarr tarafından gönderildi:

Hmm, I was thinking of trying these out, but it looked like they may have just added artificial difficulty for no actual purpose. Seeing your post makes me feel like that is likely correct, so thanks for saving me the time of downloading the entire modpacks.

They do love their additional complexity, yes. However, it's also not just an addition of complexity; vanilla factorio barely even touches on the kinds of problems you can have with byproducts, wheras angels explores them frequently, and even bobs on its own adds a couple of them.


Additionally, please do take the OP's review with a rather large grain of salt; many of their complaints stem from an utter and complete failure to understand the meaning of the word "byproducts".

If you are nervous about the sheer quantity of complexity added (they DO add a lot when combined!), then adding only Bob's or only Angels may be more up your alley. Indeed, you may even wish to limit yourself to parts of bob's or parts of angels-if you're REALLY nervous, just get bobs without the circuits part of the mod. This will give you access to higher-tier equipment while leaving the vanilla options mostly untouched in terms of complexity, allowing you to delve into the added complexity at your own pace.


Whatever you do, avoid the petrochems section of Angels. The fact you're remotely nervous about the added difficulty means that particular section is NOT for you.

[DeNarr]

İlk olarak fractalgem tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak DeNarr tarafından gönderildi:

Hmm, I was thinking of trying these out, but it looked like they may have just added artificial difficulty for no actual purpose. Seeing your post makes me feel like that is likely correct, so thanks for saving me the time of downloading the entire modpacks.

They do love their additional complexity, yes. However, it's also not just an addition of complexity; vanilla factorio barely even touches on the kinds of problems you can have with byproducts, wheras angels explores them frequently, and even bobs on its own adds a couple of them.


Additionally, please do take the OP's review with a rather large grain of salt; many of their complaints stem from an utter and complete failure to understand the meaning of the word "byproducts".

If you are nervous about the sheer quantity of complexity added (they DO add a lot when combined!), then adding only Bob's or only Angels may be more up your alley. Indeed, you may even wish to limit yourself to parts of bob's or parts of angels-if you're REALLY nervous, just get bobs without the circuits part of the mod. This will give you access to higher-tier equipment while leaving the vanilla options mostly untouched in terms of complexity, allowing you to delve into the added complexity at your own pace.


Whatever you do, avoid the petrochems section of Angels. The fact you're remotely nervous about the added difficulty means that particular section is NOT for you.

I did decide to go ahead and try Bob's without Electronics. Some stuff is cool, but there's a lot of buildings that I wish were better explained. For instance, I have no idea what Water Pumpjacks do. I thought it would be a way to get water away form a lake, but I can't seem to build them anywhere. In fact, all the water related buildings seem weird.

[Grossout]

You put them over ground water puddles to get regular water or lithia water. Just like oil pump jacks

[DeNarr]

İlk olarak Grossout tarafından gönderildi:

You put them over ground water puddles to get regular water or lithia water. Just like oil pump jacks

Hmm, I haven't seen any of those, but thanks for answering.

[fractalgem]

İlk olarak DeNarr tarafından gönderildi:

I did decide to go ahead and try Bob's without Electronics. Some stuff is cool, but there's a lot of buildings that I wish were better explained. For instance, I have no idea what Water Pumpjacks do. I thought it would be a way to get water away form a lake, but I can't seem to build them anywhere. In fact, all the water related buildings seem weird.

Their main purpose is to get you Lithia water. There's a config you can change to use them to produce water anywhere you want, but it'll also mean they can produce lithia water anywhere you want. Why?

Well, the mod author couldn't figure out how to decouple the two things, so he shrugged his shoulders and moved on to more important stuff, like making sure his mods were nice and modular (it's why you can tear the circuits mod out-which many view as the heart of the modpack-and still have things function.)

[BOYCOTT]

bob's + angel's is the real "normal" difficulty for factorio imo, it's one of those things where i could just never go back, sure it took me probably literal weeks to learn them and yes you do need to rebuild your base in it's entirety a lot, but the complexity is sorely needed in vanilla.

now if only there was a nice low tier steam furnace, that's probably the sole gripe i have with the two is it can take multiple IRL days worth of time to research electric furnaces entirely too easily.

[fractalgem]

I think I've seen a mod with low-tier electric furnaces, i just can't remember where...