One belt, 2 lane balancer?

[Frost]

Hello, I searched on youtube and cannot find a quick balancer for one belt that remains on one belt, but balances the two lanes on the one belt so that one lane doesn't sit there while the other lane gets used.

If a lane is going left to right, and the bottom lane is not getting used, I can put a splitter so that a new belt shows up above the main belt, and then turn it down to merge with the belt.

That works to a decent degree, but it seems it ends up not being that balanced over time.

So just like they have multiple belt balancers (that I actually use as well and they work fine), can anyone point me to a one belt balancer that keeps both lanes as efficiently balanced as possible? I have yet to figure out one that is as smooth and reliable as any multiple belt balancer.

[Defektiv]

This package, first BP in it, should work unless your problem is on the other end where they are getting pulled OFF the belt.

https://www.factorio.school/view/-LJfmAxOU0rJ8CaeKVLW

[Grumpy Old Gamer]

https://imgur.com/1vSN8ek

[königplatzen]

Escrito originalmente por knighttemplar1960:

I'm really liking the big miners from Vulcanus just for their catchment size.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3412627106

Just realized, you use beacons and prodmodules in miners.
Personally, I would just use Mining Prod research instead of extra prodmodules. That small bit extra is imo not worth the extra prods, which decrease speed and probably beacons to compensate speed
Or is it better with big miners?

[knighttemplar1960]

Escrito originalmente por königplatzen:

Escrito originalmente por knighttemplar1960:

I'm really liking the big miners from Vulcanus just for their catchment size.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3412627106

Just realized, you use beacons and prodmodules in miners.
Personally, I would just use Mining Prod research instead of extra prodmodules. That small bit extra is imo not worth the extra prods, which decrease speed and probably beacons to compensate speed
Or is it better with big miners?

-50% resource drain with the big miner and 4 module slots instead of 2. Seems a waste to not put modules of some sort in at least until I can replace them with higher quality miners. When I get mining productivity research up high enough I'll switch to direct insertion into cargo wagons anyway but for now this cranks out ore as fast as I'm using it. I'm using nuclear power so I have power in abundance. No reason not to get free ore from the modules.

[Flash✪Gordon]

Escrito originalmente por Fletch:

Escrito originalmente por GAMING_Alligator:

I think all you need for this is a splitter followed by a t-junction.

And the winner is: @GAMING_Alligator

Escrito originalmente por GAMING_Alligator:

If a problem in Factorio has a simple solution, never underestimate the community's ability to recommend an overly complicated one.

Escrito originalmente por GAMING_Alligator:

I do wonder how many people worrying about perfect lane balancing are simply being stubborn and refusing to upgrade their belts as demand increases. Green belts and stack inserters solve most throughput problems in this game!

Not just winner. Tripple winner!

And this perceived about 200 posts ago. The "Never underestimate the community's ability..." quote should be a sticky

[königplatzen]

Escrito originalmente por knighttemplar1960:

Escrito originalmente por königplatzen:

Just realized, you use beacons and prodmodules in miners.
Personally, I would just use Mining Prod research instead of extra prodmodules. That small bit extra is imo not worth the extra prods, which decrease speed and probably beacons to compensate speed
Or is it better with big miners?

-50% resource drain with the big miner and 4 module slots instead of 2. Seems a waste to not put modules of some sort in at least until I can replace them with higher quality miners. When I get mining productivity research up high enough I'll switch to direct insertion into cargo wagons anyway but for now this cranks out ore as fast as I'm using it. I'm using nuclear power so I have power in abundance. No reason not to get free ore from the modules.

Hmm, had to lookup the wiki:
"The big mining drill is the stronger and larger big brother of the electric mining drill. It has the unique property of reducing resource drain from mining by 50%, which means the resource underneath the drill's mining area only has its richness depleted half of the time. This effect directly multiplies with the productivity of the drill in terms of the amount of resources that can be extracted from a single patch."

the normal big mining drill has resource drain at 50%, while the normal basic mining drill has 100%, according to the tooltip.

So, f.e. when you have 50% mining prod and use normal big drills:
for 100 mining operations, you get 150 ores due to mining prod
And only every other mining operation depletes the patch.
-> 50 ore from the patch delivers 150 ores, which is 3 times more
-> the normal basic mining drill would mine 100 ores and delivers 150 ores -> 1,5 times more

Now, I still wonder, if prod modules would have positive effect. At least you reduce depletion further

btw: A legendary big drill has 8% depletion rate. That's insane. It's like ~12 times more resources.

[königplatzen]

Escrito originalmente por Gordon✪Gekko:

Escrito originalmente por Fletch:

And the winner is: @GAMING_Alligator

Escrito originalmente por GAMING_Alligator:

If a problem in Factorio has a simple solution, never underestimate the community's ability to recommend an overly complicated one.

Escrito originalmente por GAMING_Alligator:

I do wonder how many people worrying about perfect lane balancing are simply being stubborn and refusing to upgrade their belts as demand increases. Green belts and stack inserters solve most throughput problems in this game!

Not just winner. Tripple winner!

And this perceived about 200 posts ago. The "Never underestimate the community's ability..." quote should be a sticky

Except, we don't know, what OP really wanted.
But it's off topic now anyway, should probably be a different thread now

[Fel]

Productivity modules are additive, towards each others and other sources of productivity.
So the higher your mining productivity research, the lower the effect of productivity modules in mining drills.

Still, a legendary productivity module 3 gives +25% (+10% for normal quality), so 4 of them is still adding 100 (40 with normal quality) to the percentage added by research, it isn't exactly small.
But productivity modules is not the only thing you can add there, speed modules end up being pretty good in big mining drills if your belts can support the increased output, and they combo really well with the mining productivity research.

It's often not much about resource depletion and often more about how much you are producing per minute since your factory is an ever-growing monster needs an increasingly large amount of ores to sustain it..

[Flash✪Gordon]

Escrito originalmente por Fel:

Infinite exponential growth isn't possible. Every economy based on this paradigm will collapse sooner or later.

Escrito originalmente por Königsplatzen:

OP left the ship as it seems. Nevertheless OP should mark one of Alligators spot on posts as answer.

[Chindraba]

Escrito originalmente por Gordon✪Gekko:

Infinite exponential growth isn't possible. Every economy based on this paradigm will collapse sooner or later.

It can still be fun while it lasts. Venture capitalists do well with the model when they have the option to cut-n-run before the collapse happens.

[Flash✪Gordon]

Escrito originalmente por Chindraba:

It can still be fun while it lasts. Venture capitalists do well with the model when they have the option to cut-n-run before the collapse happens.

A man fell from the 47th floor of a building in N.Y. At each floor that he passed he thought:

"So far, so good!"

[Chindraba]

It's not the fall, but the landing which will alter your social standing.

[Flash✪Gordon]

Precisely!

Oh man, this forum wouldn't be that same without you!

[Fletch]

Escrito originalmente por Gordon✪Gekko:

OP left the ship as it seems. Nevertheless OP should mark one of Alligators spot on posts as answer.

Correct answer for OP's use case could either be the "simple" output-only lane balancer (that I shared), or the more complex input/output lane balancer (that Fel shared). With the caveat that its not recommended to use the underground half-belt trick to split off a single lane -- should always use the "T" design to do that (in my opinion) since there are edge cases where gaps do not get filled when just using the underground half belt trick with any of these lane balancer designs.

There are many different designs for output-only and input/output lane balancers as others have shared too -- everyone has their favorite they prefer. The beauty of the game is that possibilities are endless and there rarely is any single "best" answer without giving a lot more context and being specific on exactly what case is being optimize for -- screenshots would help when proposing a problem and asking the community for solutions.

For all we know, OP's problem might not be best solved by any lane-balancer at all. Could potentially be related to a production problem upstream or just simply the belts need to be upgraded for more throughput.

In a base where belt throughput is not a problem, and production/supply is not a problem (over production related to consumption), the end result between the output-only and input/output balancers is just picking which excess production machines will sit idle.

• With the output-only lane balancer: typically an entire side of production machines will sit idle -- while the other side does all the work of producing products that are demanded downstream.
  
• With the input/ouput lane balancer: the "front" half of production machines will be idle (on both sides), and only the back half of the production machines will run (on both sides).

The difference just shifts which production machines are idle, while both lane balancers will "fill any gaps" in one lane by using excess products from the other lane. The key being "excess products from the other lane". 50% of the production machines will still be idle either way when only 50% of the production is being consumed.

In the use-case of train-wagon unloading and you want buffer chests to have equal levels in them: you'll probably need some sort of input/output lane (and belt) balancing. Outside of that use case (balancing levels in buffer chests), the output-only lane balancer may be all that is needed for it to "just work".

[Flash✪Gordon]

This whole thread ressembles a habilitation treatise AKA postdoctoral qualification rather that a simple game discussion.

In Satisfactory you just have Splitters and Smart Splitters and it works very well.

So ... is is just like Gaming-Alligator said and this discussion a result of people looking for overy complicate solutions ....

... or is this game (regarding belts) really that insane complicate / complex / bad-coded, so that one should better learn Factorio at university as a postdoctoral study before trying to dive into that mind-twisting / mind-numbing experience?

For the sake of Factorio I hope it's the former and Alligator is "the winner" of this discussion.

*inserts a praying emoticon*