One belt, 2 lane balancer?

[Frost]

Hello, I searched on youtube and cannot find a quick balancer for one belt that remains on one belt, but balances the two lanes on the one belt so that one lane doesn't sit there while the other lane gets used.

If a lane is going left to right, and the bottom lane is not getting used, I can put a splitter so that a new belt shows up above the main belt, and then turn it down to merge with the belt.

That works to a decent degree, but it seems it ends up not being that balanced over time.

So just like they have multiple belt balancers (that I actually use as well and they work fine), can anyone point me to a one belt balancer that keeps both lanes as efficiently balanced as possible? I have yet to figure out one that is as smooth and reliable as any multiple belt balancer.

[Fletch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย GAMING_Alligator:

The bigger problem with your example seems to be that the belts aren't fast enough to fill the six chests you are trying to get balanced.

All the lane balancing in the world won't help you if you simply can't transport enough on the belts to do what you want to do.

LOL, yes I know -- I'm just slapping the chests there to ensure full half-belt consumption on the split off lanes. Don't read into how I'm "producing" or "consuming" (blue chests at top for example) -- just testing easy examples that anyone can replicate.

For sure, even after "lane balancing" and you see gaps below, and stalled content above -- you need to increase the belt tier for all the belts/splitters/underground on that "main bus".

[Fletch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Khaylain:

<snip>

Please double check that I'm building and using it correctly. If I did build it and use it correctly, unfortunately it "fails" in both cases (2 pulls from same side, or 2 pulls opposite side). The other examples we've looked at fail in one case, but worked in the other...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3411819619

The hunt continues :)

[Khaylain]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fletch:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Khaylain:

<snip>

Please double check that I'm building and using it correctly. If I did build it and use it correctly, unfortunately it "fails" in both cases (2 pulls from same side, or 2 pulls opposite side). The other examples we've looked at fail in one case, but worked in the other...

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3411819619

The hunt continues :)

Interesting. Thanks for checking.
Now I wonder what happens if one had put the "pulling off splitters" as priority output (for all of the "balancers"). Because I'm starting to think it's sort of impossible to get a full belt out of the upper one unless it's pulling from a fully backed up belt. But a priority output would disregard the downstream state of the belts, and make the effects of the "balancers" visible downstream instead of trying to make it visible upstream.

The reason I'm saying that is because I'm thinking it's more about the splitters and undergrounds pulling off the belt than the "balancers" themselves. But it's getting a bit too much for my brain to think of at the moment.

[Fel]

I don't even understand the premise of this being a "fail" in the first place.
A normal splitter under normal conditions will send half to both sides.
To send more than that, you would need the normal belt to not accept anything on that lane.

If that is what you want to achieve in the first place then why not use the priority output?

[Fletch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย GAMING_Alligator:

I think all you need for this is a splitter followed by a t-junction.

And the winner is: @GAMING_Alligator

Seems the issue with all the balancers is the usage of the half-underground belt when splitting off that half lane. If you use the "T" junction, then 2 pulls from either sides (or opposite) sides work fine, whether you use any lane-balancing or not.

This example uses @Khaylain's favorite balancer (just because I had it already set up with trying out the "T" trick) -- fairly confident all the balancers we've looked at will work as long as your split offs use the "T".

End result: use whatever balancer you want -- just never do the half-underground belt thing -- use "T" instead.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3411884303

[Fel]

The more it goes on, the more I feel like Fletch is not talking about lane balancers, which was the whole point of the discussion.
I mean, it's fine as a solution if that is the result you wanted to get (more likely to have a full half-belt after splitting) but it has absolutely nothing to do with lane balancing.

Just as a reminder because it seems like it was lost during the process, the whole reason I sent only half a belt to the side was specifically to showcase what happens to both the inputs and outputs in case of imbalance after the balancer.

[königplatzen]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fletch:

-snip-

OK, and what again did we try to achieve?

[Fletch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย königplatzen:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fletch:

-snip-

OK, and what again did we try to achieve?

Well, lets see -- I learned to never use that underground belt hack to split off a lane. Maybe others learned something too?

[königplatzen]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fletch:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย königplatzen:

OK, and what again did we try to achieve?

Well, lets see -- I learned to never use that underground belt hack to split off a lane. Maybe others learned something too?

Tbh, when somebody started to use this design, I thought, what is this.

This one:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2154178666

But, since then, I had several occasions where I needed it. But don't pin me down, where exactly, I need to search....
I only know, that I don't use it, if I don't need to

[königplatzen]

OK here is an example:
https://imgur.com/a/J4RrSYw

The iron gears assembler consume 12 iron out of 15, but they pull first from the left and then from the right lane.
The balancer ensures, that the furnaces produce similar amounts on both lanes and backup equally. Without balancer or with the other one, it would backup only on one side.
It can be useful here an there, f.e. also with train unloading.

The problem doesn't occur, when the whole belt is consumed.

[oyssoyss]

1. one lane of items on one belt to two lanes in one belt.
2. unbalanced two lanes of items to balanced two lane of items.

that's totally different thing.

in situation 2 each lane might be jammed or empty and you still got a balanced output.

[RiO]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Fletch:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย königplatzen:

OK, and what again did we try to achieve?

Well, lets see -- I learned to never use that underground belt hack to split off a lane. Maybe others learned something too?

You can actually use the non-simple, i.e. actual, 1:1 lane balancer, and rather than have the final piece of belt curve back in to side-load onto the belt running straight out, you keep them separate. This gives a perfectly input/output throughput-unlimited balanced split into two separate half-lane belts.

This build pattern is colloquially referred to as the broken lane balancer - coined and popularized by Nilaus, though someone else actually first came up with the actual idea and proved it works.


The thing you've actually learned?
Balancers are terribly, terribly complicated monstrosities. And actually understanding precisely what they do is nothing less than mind-bending. ;-)

[Fletch]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย RiO:

You can actually use the non-simple, i.e. actual, 1:1 lane balancer, and rather than have the final piece of belt curve back in to side-load onto the belt running straight out, you keep them separate. This gives a perfectly input/output throughput-unlimited balanced split into two separate half-lane belts.

This build pattern is colloquially referred to as the broken lane balancer - coined and popularized by Nilaus, though someone else actually first came up with the actual idea and proved it works.

I can see how the "perfect ratio" team would be OK with that. The issue is if your split off half-belt (1 lane) only needs a portion of that lane's capacity, the other 50% of the belt is allowed to go downstream (the 2nd lane) and the remaining unused capacity of the split off lane is blocked up above the balancer. You'd need to perfect-ratio and consume exactly that half-belt/1-lane (and no less) otherwise the belt's total throughput is less than what its fully capable of.

My bases are way too spaghetti for that level of perfection :)

The thing you've actually learned?
Balancers are terribly, terribly complicated monstrosities. And actually understanding precisely what they do is nothing less than mind-bending. ;-)

No doubt about that!
Example 8x6 multibelt balancer: https://factoriobin.com/post/KafN8H7L/196

By the way, I'm just now noticing the output lane balancer is on the factorio wiki (probably where I originally saw it many years ago and have stuck with it as "meh"): https://wiki.factorio.com/Balancer_mechanics#Lane_balancers

[königplatzen]

I'm wondering, if OP got his/her answer...

[Fel]

He got the two generally used ones in the first few answers, so unless he cares about the specific details he should have gotten his answer, although we can't know for sure since he never posted again after making the thread.