I don't understand Main Bus.

[LogicalAttic258]

(I haven't started the DLC yet so don't spoil that please)

I don't quite understand why Main Bus is a good strategy. The only pro to it that I know of is that it's very cheap, so you can start building it immediately when you spawn in, unlike something like a train network that takes hours of setup and resources before you reap any benefits. But the issue I've found with Main Bus is that it has basically 0 adaptability. The only way Main Bus works is if you know how many lanes of which things you're going to need, and the exact order and size of all the factories you're going to put on it. The first issue about lanes is pretty well known, and honestly not that big of a con. Adding more lanes is possible. It's the second one that constantly trips me up that no one seems to talk about.

Let's say you want to make more red circuits, so you go to the end of your bus and make a small red circuit factory. It runs for a few minutes before suddenly slowing to a crawl. Why did it do that? Because your green circuit lanes were backed up, but now that you've gone through the back log it turns out you're hardly producing enough. So now you need to make more green circuits. That's fine right? The whole game loop of Factorio is "I need more of X, now I need more of Y." Except the problem is that you're using Main Bus. If the green circuit factory that's at the beginning of your bus is already at max efficiency, given the space it has and the technology level you're at, then you're screwed! Because now the only thing you can do is tear down the entire red circuit factory you just made in order to make another green circuit factory in front of it, and then make the red circuit factory again. What a pain. Just hope that that addition doesn't make you run out of copper and force you to rebuild it all again!

I'm assuming I'm missing some crucial detail about how to use Main Bus, because everyone gushes about how easy it is to use but when I try it I find instances like the one above happening constantly. Obviously Main Bus works when you don't need adaptability and can plan your entire factory out ahead of time using a Factorio calculator, and I've done that, but manually copying blueprints I made in sandbox mode is so soul-crushing.

My motivation behind asking this is that the way I naturally default to playing Factorio is that I'll do all the start-up science up to blue, but then when that spaghetti becomes too much to manage I have to do the long and arduous process of pausing all my research, tearing down my base, and establishing a train network, but as I mentioned before train networks are a huge commitment, especially when you don't have late-game tools, and eventually the grind will bore me to death and I'll abandon the save file, assuming the biters don't overrun me first. I would like to actually reach the rocket launch consistently, especially now that there's content after it that I have yet to see, but unless there's some secret 3rd base strategy I've never heard of, Main Bus is the only possible cure to my problem.

One other small point of confusion: What do people typically do for research with Main Bus? For research I've just done science lanes going backwards towards the front of the bus, and putting all my labs there, but I've never seen anything like that in screenshots and it's very baffling.

[MechBFP]

Leave room in between each build so you can route in additional items to the bus wherever you need them.

[Fel]

Main bus is an approach that makes it very easy to expand the production of any and all steps.
It is a great tool for those that struggle with space management and forward-planning, allowing them to setup an organized factory that can be expanded uppon whenever there is a need for it.
And that's pretty much it.

It's not even cheap, the amount of belts required to set it up is quite a bit higher than any organized spaghetti.

For research (when using the main bus I mean), I typically send the required items further to the side and have a place for science production, close to the labs.

[argrond]

Main bus is so popular because it's easy to organize.
If you have better ideas about how to proceed your production lines - nobody forbids you to do as you please. )

[Maltsi]

Main bus is not cheap, its the most expensive style in my opinion because of the insane amount of belts needed. As for the green chip issue, i think most people make their green ones separated from the main bus since you need so many of them.

[LogicalAttic258]

Originally posted by MechBFP:

Leave room in between each build so you can route in additional items to the bus wherever you need them.

How much room? Route in additional items from where?

[LogicalAttic258]

Originally posted by Fel:

Main bus is an approach that makes it very easy to expand the production of any and all steps.
It is a great tool for those that struggle with space management and forward-planning, allowing them to setup an organized factory that can be expanded uppon whenever there is a need for it.
And that's pretty much it.

It's not even cheap, the amount of belts required to set it up is quite a bit higher than any organized spaghetti.

For research (when using the main bus I mean), I typically send the required items further to the side and have a place for science production, close to the labs.

Your reply seems to directly contradict the post I just made, where I went over why it's not good for people who lack forward planing and why it's very difficult to expand. Can you explain what you're doing differently to get this experience?

[malogoss]

A main bus is anything but cheap. It costs a lot of resources to build, belts, splitters and underground belts that you would not have used otherwise. It also takes time to build all that extra stuff, building a bus before having construction bots is my definition of hell.

It also is horrible for space needed. Who cares about space in a game where you'll never see the end of the map, one might ask? Well, I sometimes do. Like when running from one end of the base to the other, especially before exoskeletons. Or when a logistic network's size is so bloated that bots need to recharge 3 times per delivery.

It's a system that organises things but it's inefficient in every other aspect. And definitely not cheap at all, quite the opposite.

[LogicalAttic258]

Originally posted by Maltsi:

Main bus is not cheap, its the most expensive style in my opinion because of the insane amount of belts needed. As for the green chip issue, i think most people make their green ones separated from the main bus since you need so many of them.

I didn't find it that expensive. I just used yellow belts. After all, you're already producing hundreds of them for green science. And it's a hell of a lot cheaper then a train network! Are there other styles besides Main Bus and trains that you know of?

I'm aware that making green circuits away from base is a common practice. It was just an example. My dilemma could be applied to any of the recipes of Factorio.

[PunCrathod]

The pro of a main bus is adaptability. If your main bus is west to east to west. Only build stuff on the north side and you can add as many new lanes on the south side as you need. The lanes on the bus don't all have to run into the same direction btw and you can even turn a lane back to go to the other direction too if you want. You can add stuff and lanes until your ups goes below playable and there will still be room for more.

[Hurkyl]

You don't need to know the size of the subfactories you need, just their width.

You make your main bus running East-West, and you want to put a block making green circuits.

You tap the iron and copper belts and run them North-South, and your Green Circuit factory is a few North-South line of assemblers. But now you decide this block doesn't do enough and you want to make more. What you do is you just extend it further in the North-South direction; you didn't need to plan the length of this spur in advance.

And if you leave a couple tiles of room to the side, when it turns out "Ack I need to run a second belt of copper Northward" you have space to do it.

[LogicalAttic258]

Originally posted by malogoss:

A main bus is anything but cheap. It costs a lot of resources to build, belts, splitters and underground belts that you would not have used otherwise. It also takes time to build all that extra stuff, building a bus before having construction bots is my definition of hell.

It also is horrible for space needed. Who cares about space in a game where you'll never see the end of the map, one might ask? Well, I sometimes do. Like when running from one end of the base to the other, especially before exoskeletons. Or when a logistic network's size is so bloated that bots need to recharge 3 times per delivery.

It's a system that organises things but it's inefficient in every other aspect. And definitely not cheap at all, quite the opposite.

Fair, what do you do instead?

[Zogtar]

Main bus is more of a late or mid game thing when you start having multiple mining ventures, multiple foundries, and need an ungodly amount of resources. Belt Buffers are still over my head on usefulness, but I'm sure someone else can explain the why there.

Example:
I have "sorta" a main bus of steel/copper plates ongoing, and it's VERY USEFUL to coordinate automation areas. All I need to do is lengthen it out, add more copper production from another area (playing base settings), and eventually I will have absolutely no resource bottlenecks.

Currently making blue chips in my space age game. I have trains running too, but they'll eventually be feeding into a main bus as the factory must expand.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3367766077

[LogicalAttic258]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

You don't need to know the size of the subfactories you need, just their width.

You make your main bus running East-West, and you want to put a block making green circuits.

You tap the iron and copper belts and run them North-South, and your Green Circuit factory is a few North-South line of assemblers. But you didn't make enough, you need more Green Circuits! What you do is you just extend it further in the North-South direction; you didn't need to plan the length of this spur in advance.

And if you leave a couple tiles of room to the side, when it turns out "Ack I need to run a second belt of copper Northward" you have space to do it.

But what about when you're restricted by the carry capacity of belts? Like a lane of copper feeding copper wire makers, but the copper won't reach the end of the assembly line because it keeps getting eaten by the assemblers up front? The solution would be to make it wider but you can't!

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by RussellKids9000:

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

You don't need to know the size of the subfactories you need, just their width.

You make your main bus running East-West, and you want to put a block making green circuits.

You tap the iron and copper belts and run them North-South, and your Green Circuit factory is a few North-South line of assemblers. But you didn't make enough, you need more Green Circuits! What you do is you just extend it further in the North-South direction; you didn't need to plan the length of this spur in advance.

And if you leave a couple tiles of room to the side, when it turns out "Ack I need to run a second belt of copper Northward" you have space to do it.

But what about when you're restricted by the carry capacity of belts? Like a lane of copper feeding copper wire makers, but the copper won't reach the end of the assembly line because it keeps getting eaten by the assemblers up front? The solution would be to make it wider but you can't!

The solution then is to make another set at the end of the bus. Again belts don't all have to go to the same direction on the bus.

[Kryten]

Originally posted by RussellKids9000:

(...)
Let's say you want to make more red circuits, so you go to the end of your bus and make a small red circuit factory. It runs for a few minutes before suddenly slowing to a crawl. Why did it do that? Because your green circuit lanes were backed up, but now that you've gone through the back log it turns out you're hardly producing enough. So now you need to make more green circuits. That's fine right? The whole game loop of Factorio is "I need more of X, now I need more of Y." Except the problem is that you're using Main Bus. If the green circuit factory that's at the beginning of your bus is already at max efficiency, given the space it has and the technology level you're at, then you're screwed! Because now the only thing you can do is tear down the entire red circuit factory you just made in order to make another green circuit factory in front of it, and then make the red circuit factory again. What a pain. Just hope that that addition doesn't make you run out of copper and force you to rebuild it all again!
(...)

In theory you are right. In practise this is not so painful after all. In the situation described above, I would ctrl+x the stuff stuff I built for red circuits, paste it a bit further down the bus (or in the next "block" if using something like city blocks). Then I'd go into remote view, copy my green circuit factory, exit remote view, paste it into the free space and connect it to the bus...job done in a few moments by my drones.