Influence of freshness on science

[Bhordelik]

I noticed that green science didn't discover as much as I thought they ought to. I inputed 500 science, two times, to research something 300 and the research didn't finish.
After several tests I understood that freshness change the "science value" of the pack science pack.

And Gleba that was hardcore became the green hell. I need to output science quickly, and with the highest freshness possible ? Come on, this dlc just spoiled for me...
-Impossible to setup agricultural tower to seed independently from harvest
-setup with train got almost impossible without wasting too much time
-handling waste in every converyor got boring wery quickly
-eggs that spoil so quickly, you can't get a setup that can boot without human intervention
- and so on

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Bhordelik:

-Impossible to setup agricultural tower to seed independently from harvest

If you don't take fruits/nuts out of the tower, it won't harvest anything beyond the two trees it needs to fill its internal inventory. (and I think if you leave the spoilage inside, it stays blocked? I haven't checked)

-setup with train got almost impossible without wasting too much time

Amusingly, a number of people talk about train solutions as the very method by which they avoid "wasting time".

Try changing how you use trains. I haven't tried it myself, but I imagine working with small cargo payloads is the main trick.

-handling waste in every converyor got boring wery quickly

Then automate. Work out a design pattern that doesn't require much effort on your part. Blueprint the relevant pieces so you don't even have to think about it.

-eggs that spoil so quickly, you can't get a setup that can boot without human intervention
- and so on

If your current boot system for a block managing pentapod eggs can't manage the task in 15 minutes, then change the boot system. Whatever you are doing by human intervention, set up automation to do that on demand.

[Neferneith]

Take a deep breath, you can do it.

1) Always seed. Fruits don't spoil on tree. Only pick what you need.
2) Belts are enough for fruits (1h spoil time) I did it with yellow belt while my Yumeko was 7 chunks away. It works, just a matter of adjustment.
3) Come on, just one splitter with Spoiled filter on each belt. Makes way to a singular lane leading to a burner, easy spagetti.
4) that's the hardest part. Sushi belt revolving. Only nutrient, eggs and bioflux to feed Agri Pack. Limit the number of eggs produced by monitoring the content of the belt. Done.

Gleba is ok. You can do it.

[Simon]

My train setup is as simple as having a train running on a loop to and from the farm. I use fixed timers for load/unloading, so trains only load as much as they have the time to load and always keep moving.

Remember you can use eggs as fuel in the heating tower, so when you're producing enough eggs you want the excess to get burned as opposed to piling up.

[Nhillism]

A lot of it has been said already but I'll pitch in my 2 cents.

The biggest thing that helped me was limiting the stack size and inserter type that was pulling fruit from the tree planter. Like others have said it doesn't start spoiling until the tree is picked. I started with a single yellow inserter with 1 stack size and just scaled it up as I progressed. You can never run out of seeds as long as you process the fruits before you burn them.

For science I simply undersized my egg production compared to the science pack production so I was always using the eggs faster than I could make them. You can feed the entire science pack setup with just a belt of bioflux, using the bioflux->nutrients recipe to make it's own nutrient cycle. I'm not sure about the whole boot up situation because I just leave it running. Doesn't hurt much to just let science spoil when you aren't using it.

[Bhordelik]

1) How do you only pick what you need ? Agri tower don't take signal for harvesting, you can just turn them on and off, so seeding and harvesting at the same time. No cherry picking. And while they are up, they harvest and rot little by little, eventually leading to loss of seeds.
And if you turn them off, you need to wait before harvest is ready. And "Waiting" is the bane of Gleba.
2) I don't like horizon wide belt. Or logistic robot only setup. But there I have to because it won't work otherwise.

Ah, and I just got wiped by a Stomper, because I can't even research missile turrets. it raze everything before you can even get here. When a science got out of Gleba, it is worth 1/4 of its value when I get to Nauvis. Fun, lost 4+ hours in seconds.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Bhordelik:

1) How do you only pick what you need ? Agri tower don't take signal for harvesting, you can just turn them on and off, so seeding and harvesting at the same time. No cherry picking. And while they are up, they harvest and rot little by little, eventually leading to loss of seeds.
And if you turn them off, you need to wait before harvest is ready. And "Waiting" is the bane of Gleba.
2) I don't like horizon wide belt. Or logistic robot only setup. But there I have to because it won't work otherwise.

Ah, and I just got wiped by a Stomper, because I can't even research missile turrets. it raze everything before you can even get here. When a science got out of Gleba, it is worth 1/4 of its value when I get to Nauvis. Fun, lost 4+ hours in seconds.

You shouldn't have any problem with stompers if you're taking care of them manually with a tank. You should be deleting nests within your cloud like you would on Nauvis. I say "should" because that just seemed to work on my play through. I'm sure you could put up enough turrets to keep your base safe, but it's just so much easier to go and take care of them manually. Once you have artillery it's basically hands off, much like Nauvis. I've just spammed laser turrets all around my farms and that seems to have taken care of the occasional early game threats.

Personally I've been doing bio science on Gleba. I'll ship some +2k science to my platform and send it down on that planet. Why? Well.. no idea.... it just seemed simpler at the time.

[argrond]

Another man bites the dust on Gleba... XDD

1. Why do you even need that? The whole point is to seed and harvest simultaneously.
2. 15 second per stop, including unload. Do not even think of doing trains "as usual", resources will be spoiling in wagons (they will anyway, you just need to maintain freshness from harvest).
3. Boring - maybe, problem - no.
4. What are you preserving them for? Use right away, everything beyond usable ratio - burn. They live 15 minutes, giant amount of time.
5. On every "so on" there is another solution.

Just do not think "as usual" on Gleba, embrace dirt nature and seek for non-trivial solutions. The hardest part is nutrients, once you figure out how to provide a steady supply of those, you are good to go. Hint - you have tons of spoilage siphoned out of your system, make use of it. )

Before you ask - I stopped worrying about seed after the first 1000 of them stored, they multiply in immense quantities. And I only have 75 jellynut (750 nuts/m) and 91 yumako (910 yumako/m) plants to harvest, 3 towers for yumako and 2 for jelly. Insignificant stain on the map, but that is already the amount you will not be able to proceed without a little bit of megabasing. Just keep producing bioflux, and you are pretty much done it - prepare to start bathing in resources. )

[SMJSMOK]

Tesla turrets are extremely effective against stompers. With a couple of upgrades to electric damage, they basically erase them (slow them down and the current jumps between their legs, multiplying damage). They are power hungry, but with enough waste burning, you should have plenty of power. Also remember that they only go for the farming towers, so it's enough to concentrate the defenses there.

Obviously also clear out the pollution cloud to make your life easier.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Bhordelik:

1) How do you only pick what you need ? Agri tower don't take signal for harvesting, you can just turn them on and off, so seeding and harvesting at the same time. No cherry picking. And while they are up, they harvest and rot little by little, eventually leading to loss of seeds.

Disable the inserter pulling out of the tower until you actually need something.

How to decide when to enable the inserter is a question in of itself, though. I've played with three solutions so far.

The second was a logistics chest based system. Inserter pulled out of tower and put into passive provider. I put a wire beween them and only allowed the inserter to run when the chest had fewer than 50 items. (later I upped it to 100)

The other two solutions I've played with involve wiring the inserter up to a belt (or belts), where the belts are set to read the contents that all belts are holding.

The first was a long belt from my towers to my factory. I guessed how much fruits and nuts I should allow, and turned the inserter off when there were enough.

The other I've just started playing with is a much smaller closed system leading from the towers to a chest. Everything in in the system is wired together to read their contents, and I only allow the inserters to run when there isn't enough items in the system.

In the current design, that chest is in a train loading station.

I think this last version would work fine without the circuit wires -- I just need to make sure the chest (and train) itself can't hold too many things and it will all back up, and the system is probably small enough that things slowly rotting on the belts isn't too big of a deal since it won't take too long for them to move up to the chest.

Maybe I should rearrange things so the trains drive right by the towers and draw directly from the towers.

Ah, and I just got wiped by a Stomper, because I can't even research missile turrets. it raze everything before you can even get here.

You can protect most of your base from this -- pentapods are only attracted to the spores released by the agricultural tower. So if the rest of your factory somewhere else (and not between the pentapods and the towers), it should be pretty safe.

[POWER WITHIN USER]

And Gleba that was hardcore became the green hell. I need to output science quickly, and with the highest freshness possible ? Come on, this dlc just spoiled for me...

Fortunately, agricultural technologies aren't as research hungry as the other planets'.

[Freeman]

I had a hell of a time on Gleba until I stopped overthinking a complex belt system and just used bots. Trivialises it tbh. Depends if you want to make it easy for yourself or not, it almost felt like I had cheated lol. I belt the seeds in closer to my biochambers, set up requester chests, filter off spoilage from all chests onto a main belt and feed that into a heater for some extra power. I have 2 pentapod machines supplying one science with 4 quality speed modules, feeds 8 research pods and I fly the other science onto Gleba. Nothing else you really need to do, pointless mass producing anything other than the science and maybe rocket fuel as its so much easier to do it literally anywhere else. If you want mass production there it will be much more complicated but I dont really see why you would unless you are a masochist lol

[Townsie]

Quality also helps a lot. It increases spoil time by quite a bit and increases research gained per pack in general. its only a bit of a pain to automate the transport since you cant really automate an always full rocket, so that will be a bit suboptimal.

[mrxak]

Originally posted by Freeman:

I had a hell of a time on Gleba until I stopped overthinking a complex belt system and just used bots. Trivialises it tbh. Depends if you want to make it easy for yourself or not, it almost felt like I had cheated lol. I belt the seeds in closer to my biochambers, set up requester chests, filter off spoilage from all chests onto a main belt and feed that into a heater for some extra power. I have 2 pentapod machines supplying one science with 4 quality speed modules, feeds 8 research pods and I fly the other science onto Gleba. Nothing else you really need to do, pointless mass producing anything other than the science and maybe rocket fuel as its so much easier to do it literally anywhere else. If you want mass production there it will be much more complicated but I dont really see why you would unless you are a masochist lol

Gleba really does want you to use bots. The whole game feels like bots are optimal now, even on Aquilo.