Why can I build only one Cargo landing pad ?

[Artful]

First, I know, mods fix that and I'm glad they exist ( I recommend this one https://mods.factorio.com/mod/a_lot_of_cargo_pads, it transform the landing pad into a requester chest, instead of an annoying buffer chest )

I'm just wondering why ? Why is it like that ?

The entire game is based on : "you can always expand, always have more". Why not the Landing pad ? In my base, I've build all around the Landing pad. I've created a mess of Transport belts, thinking "as long as it works it's ok, I'll build a new proper production next to the old one, when I'll need it, like for every others." But no. Why ? Without a mod I would have had to destroy everything around my Landing pad and re-do.

I think this isn't the "Factorio spirit". I shouldn't need to destroy anything. My first production lines are always a mess, and once I understand how to do it properly, I rebuild next to it ! And then I rebuild again but bigger and better, and again ... etc.

Never have I had to wipe out anything in this game because it was badly done the first time.

Plus it forces you to a centralisation I really don't like.

[Kazouie]

Nguyên văn bởi Zaflis:

Nguyên văn bởi Kazouie:

Sure, only the extra special labs go on nauvis but you can always make up for that on volume to get your 5 morbillion SPS going.

That's the key point of the thread, the volume is bottlenecked by the landing pad on every planet :p Nauvis gains an extra 50% + 2 legendary productivity modules worth in labs compared to other 4 planets. They are all together worth like 1.5 Nauvis if they have as full lab setup going.

(Yes i'm counting Aquilo because you can totally fill it with rocket silos and platforms from any planets.)

yeah i get that, which is why i mentioned the possibility of cutting out the middleman and putting the labs on space platforms.
It's not like i want to tell you not to be sad about the nauvis belt limit, just that there are options.

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi No Butt Pls No Ban:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

There wouldn't be the need to use them without the limit, its nothing like complaining there is a DLC. Im complaining about the limit, which in my opinion offers nothing since you just spam bots and requester chests to solve that. Bot users could still use them even without the limit, it takes the OPTION of not using bots away.

Every single game design choice limits you somehow. I honestly cannot follow your problem, if it's not more apt to describe it as tantrum. There is a problem, you resolve it in a certain way. Your problem with the puzzle is "I WANT IT DIFFERENT".

Worse yet, you complain the puzzle offers nothing because you resolve it by spamming bots, and propose you could resolve it by spamming pads instead. Make it make sense.

Im not against limits in general, for example planet specific restrictions for crafting or using machines. In question of landing pads im proposing to remove the "puzzle" since there is none. It only removes gameplay option and nothing else.

Why do you want the limit? what does it offer? The only thing i can think of is that devs wanted you to have 1 logistic center where everything goes through. it sounds nice, and i do like how it could make the base look. But unfortunately with only 32 inserters (realistically it will be less than that since you also want cargo bays) you are limited to bot center instead.

[Rasjel]

you can make the landing pad biger to get more storage room.
the problem is you can only pull items from it on the main body.

[Galileus]

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

Why do you want the limit?

Here's the thing you do not understand. I do not want the limit. I do not not want the limit either. I am fine, being presented a puzzle and doing the puzzle.

Why do you insist on removing the puzzle and getting unlimited, giganting logistic chests? Wouldn't that completely ruin tons of other puzzles, too? As much as I admit, having a flat-time teleportation device and building orbital logistic chains would be interesting, it would also be rather banal.

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi No Butt Pls No Ban:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

Why do you want the limit?

Here's the thing you do not understand. I do not want the limit. I do not not want the limit either. I am fine, being presented a puzzle and doing the puzzle.

Why do you insist on removing the puzzle and getting unlimited, giganting logistic chests? Wouldn't that completely ruin tons of other puzzles, too? As much as I admit, having a flat-time teleportation device and building orbital logistic chains would be interesting, it would also be rather banal.

I don't see how it would ruin anything since blue chests already exists. Landing pad only works as provider for planet logistics. The only way it could be abused is by having every material you ever need brought from other planets. But that is already balanced by having rocket stack size limits and animation times for getting/delivering the shipments. Good luck getting the same throughput with that than just using big mining drills and trains.

[Galileus]

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't see how it would ruin anything

A... what is it, 12x12 chest? You cannot see a problem with that?

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi No Butt Pls No Ban:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't see how it would ruin anything

A... what is it, 12x12 chest? You cannot see a problem with that?

You cannot insert anything in there other than from orbit, so no, i don't see any problems with that. You can already use cargo wagons as a big and wide chest not to mention cars and tanks. And now with the next update legendary chests will have 120 slots.

[PunCrathod]

Nguyên văn bởi Artful:

Nguyên văn bởi PunCrathod:

It is that way for the same reason the game doesn't start with a "you win" popup that has only a quit game button.

I don't get your point ?

Before the update, Space science packs were obtained via the Rocket silo, and you could build as many as you want. Did you considered it too easy back then ?

The point is simple. The limit is there to challenge the player.

Also how difficult the game was before the expansion is irrelevant.

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't see how it would ruin anything since blue chests already exists.

Then why are you complaining. If blue chests already exist to solve the problem you should just use them. If you already have a solution but refuse to use it then it's your own fault you can't get past the limit.


Every single challenge in the game can be broken down to a set of smaller trivial challenges so if we start removing challenges because they are trivial to solve the whole game might as well be a single "You win" screen and nothing else.

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi PunCrathod:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't see how it would ruin anything since blue chests already exists.

Then why are you complaining. If blue chests already exist to solve the problem you should just use them. If you already have a solution but refuse to use it then it's your own fault you can't get past the limit.


Every single challenge in the game can be broken down to a set of smaller trivial challenges so if we start removing challenges because they are trivial to solve the whole game might as well be a single "You win" screen an nothing else.

There is no challenge, just put down blue chest and be done with it. There is no puzzle here. So why the limit in the first place? Just to mess up with those few people who dislikes using logistic bots to trivialize everything? They would still have their option of using bots even without the limit, it only hurts belt users.

[Ryan]

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't like to use logistic bots, which means there is a hard cap how much spm i can get with only 1 landing pad since you can only fit 32 inserters around it. someone (i think it was Fel) mathed out how much spm you can get from it (only using inserters and not bots), it was something like 53k. But this only accounts vanilla which only haves 1 space science, so with the dlc its even worse since there is 6 packs you need to import.

I don't like hard limits. And once ive gotten all of the achievements i will most likely get that mod

With some creativity you can still do it without bots. Have your Filter Inserters move two items instead of one out of the landing pad. Then separate those two items further on down the line.

[Navin]

Nah I agree with OP, if you'd rather use trains and belts over bot (as a personal preference) The single cargo pad is annoying.

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi Ryan:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't like to use logistic bots, which means there is a hard cap how much spm i can get with only 1 landing pad since you can only fit 32 inserters around it. someone (i think it was Fel) mathed out how much spm you can get from it (only using inserters and not bots), it was something like 53k. But this only accounts vanilla which only haves 1 space science, so with the dlc its even worse since there is 6 packs you need to import.

I don't like hard limits. And once ive gotten all of the achievements i will most likely get that mod

With some creativity you can still do it without bots. Have your Filter Inserters move two items instead of one out of the landing pad. Then separate those two items further on down the line.

This is what i have now, there really is not much room to do anything else after unloading sciences. i could probably double the science inserters by removing 1 row of cargo hubs, but thats it
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3366868625

[Marosh]

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't like to use logistic bots, which means there is a hard cap how much spm i can get with only 1 landing pad since you can only fit 32 inserters around it. someone (i think it was Fel) mathed out how much spm you can get from it (only using inserters and not bots), it was something like 53k. But this only accounts vanilla which only haves 1 space science, so with the dlc its even worse since there is 6 packs you need to import.

I don't like hard limits. And once ive gotten all of the achievements i will most likely get that mod

It is a hard limit because of your self inflicted constrain. Something like that is never a good argument. With the same mindset, I could put a hard limit on pretty much everything.

Why are belts capped at 240 item/s. Make the stack research infinite or higher. I can't produce 2k iron plates with just one belt. Now I have to create a different design and break my self inflicted constrain or I'm stuck at a hard limit.

[PunCrathod]

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

Nguyên văn bởi PunCrathod:

Then why are you complaining. If blue chests already exist to solve the problem you should just use them. If you already have a solution but refuse to use it then it's your own fault you can't get past the limit.


Every single challenge in the game can be broken down to a set of smaller trivial challenges so if we start removing challenges because they are trivial to solve the whole game might as well be a single "You win" screen an nothing else.

There is no challenge, just put down blue chest and be done with it. There is no puzzle here. So why the limit in the first place? Just to mess up with those few people who dislikes using logistic bots to trivialize everything? They would still have their option of using bots even without the limit, it only hurts belt users.

You are contradicting yourself. If there is no puzzle then you would not be here complaining about it. Also if you want high throughput it is not as trivial as "just put a blue chest and be done with it"

Repeating your flawed arguments is not going to change anything. You are just refusing to use the solution you already have therefore your problem is your own fault.

[Maltsi]

Nguyên văn bởi Marosh:

Nguyên văn bởi Maltsi:

I don't like to use logistic bots, which means there is a hard cap how much spm i can get with only 1 landing pad since you can only fit 32 inserters around it. someone (i think it was Fel) mathed out how much spm you can get from it (only using inserters and not bots), it was something like 53k. But this only accounts vanilla which only haves 1 space science, so with the dlc its even worse since there is 6 packs you need to import.

I don't like hard limits. And once ive gotten all of the achievements i will most likely get that mod

It is a hard limit because of your self inflicted constrain. Something like that is never a good argument. With the same mindset, I could put a hard limit on pretty much everything.

Why are belts capped at 240 item/s. Make the stack research infinite or higher. I can't produce 2k iron plates with just one belt. Now I have to create a different design and break my self inflicted constrain or I'm stuck at a hard limit.

I can see where you come from. But in factorio, whenever there is an issue with throughput or production the answer is to "build more, factory must grow". But now, the only answer is spam bots, no otherway.