map generation vs achievements

[failsafe]

Game says that when I change some settings, for example regarding enemies, I wont be able to unlock achievements. Is it a 0-1 thing? I mean: whenever I change something I lock achievements or is it just applied to certain achievements? I think I have most of basic achievements already unlocked so I cant check it easily just by playing for a short time. While not an achievement hunter Id like to get some achievements for this game, but Im also interested in altering map generation.

[Fel]

Only achievements that could be affected by the presence of enemies have this rule.
And technically, it is more "default or harder for all enemy-related values except starting area".

Achievements that are affected are those related to a timer (since not having to deal with enemies means you can scale up early without anything that could punish it) and the ones about not building a specific kind of item ("steam all the way" for example).

Many of such achievements are a bit tricky to get for your first few playthroughs anyway and are the result of community challenges during the early days of the game (before it came to steam).
Steam all the way for example started from "solar produces power at no cost and allows you to drastically reduce your pollution generation, are you guys able to launch a rocket with default values for enemies and no solar?".
Similarly, timed achievements are based on "how quickly can you guys launch a rocket if the enemies are on default values?".

All of the other map settings have no influence on the availability of achievements, so you can have fun with resource deposits and such.

A majority of the achievements also don't care at all about map settings and are things you get from playing normally.

Note that achievements only work in the default game mode (freeplay), cheats or commands starting with /c disable them entirely for that save.
Mods also make achievements affect a different list (with the same achievements on it by default but mods can add/remove/edit them) that does not transfer to your steam profile's achievements.

[Green Cat]

Just start the game and check achievements. Anything that you can't get due to changing map settings will show up with a red x at the end of the list

The achievement are top right, where the map is.

Also do take note that the achievement for no mods ans the achievement with mods, while they have the exact same achievements, they are separe. Meaning if you play without mods, but then add mods, the achivment list will change (it's still the same) to the one for mods. Removing mods after won't reverse the change of the list. Only loading a save before installing mods.

[Nico]

The general rule is that if you make the enemies weaker in any way possible, it disables some achievements, mostly about finishing the game with special conditions. But anything non enemy related can be freely changed without any worries. I think when I did my speedrun achievement I simply maxed out all the resource sliders.

[failsafe]

Originally posted by Fel:

Only achievements that could be affected by the presence of enemies have this rule.
And technically, it is more "default or harder for all enemy-related values except starting area".

Achievements that are affected are those related to a timer (since not having to deal with enemies means you can scale up early without anything that could punish it) and the ones about not building a specific kind of item ("steam all the way" for example).

Thanks. It makes sense.

Originally posted by Green Cat:

Just start the game and check achievements. Anything that you can't get due to changing map settings will show up with a red x at the end of the list

The achievement are top right, where the map is.

Also do take note that the achievement for no mods ans the achievement with mods, while they have the exact same achievements, they are separe. Meaning if you play without mods, but then add mods, the achivment list will change (it's still the same) to the one for mods. Removing mods after won't reverse the change of the list. Only loading a save before installing mods.

Ok, this is very straightforward. Thanks.

[failsafe]

Originally posted by Nico:

The general rule is that if you make the enemies weaker in any way possible, it disables some achievements, mostly about finishing the game with special conditions. But anything non enemy related can be freely changed without any worries. I think when I did my speedrun achievement I simply maxed out all the resource sliders.

I think there is no information about achievements being disabled on the resources screen and I've noticed that people doing speedrun actually max out resources, so obviously you are right about this ;-)

[NocheLuz]

I don't really like the new disabled achievement things. Even the default Rail World was affected by this rule. Since it disables the enemy's expansion. It is a default setting, and it should not affect the achievement.

But right now, if you want to do achievements, playing on default is the only way to guarantee no achievements are disabled. Well, maybe also Deathworld...

[Fel]

It is not new by any mean though, achievements have worked like that for a long time now (possibly since achievements were introduced but not 100% certain about that).

[failsafe]

By the way, Ive noticed that some rather basic achievements poped up recently. I havent played this game for like two years or something, but I already had most of the basic ones... and now I got some even more basic. Are there some new achievements in the game after 2.0?

[Nico]

Originally posted by failsafe:

By the way, Ive noticed that some rather basic achievements poped up recently. I havent played this game for like two years or something, but I already had most of the basic ones... and now I got some even more basic. Are there some new achievements in the game after 2.0?

Yes, 2.0 added many new basic achievements, like building an assembly machine.

[Chindraba]

The shortest 'test' for if a map-gen setting will disable any achievements is to hover over the tiny blue info icon next the the name, There you will find if that setting affects achievements, after it tells you what the setting does.

A second line of defense is that if any settings have disabled achievements, when you click on Play you get an alert telling you what achievements are disabled and why. This alert offers the chance to return and change settings (Back), or ignore and play (Confirm).

An example is

Some of the achievements will be disabled with the current settings because:
It stinks and they don't like it: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
It stinks and they do like it: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Get off my lawn: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Keeping your hands clean: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Steam all the way: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Raining bullets: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
No time for chitchat: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
There is no spoon: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Work around the clock: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Express delivery: Cannot be unlocked with easier pollution settings.
Proceed?

You could find yourself repeating this test several times, however, since it only lists the first "check" to fail, and fixing that could then find the next reason. Rinse and repeat.

The specific settings, and their fail conditions are:

• Enemy bases: Frequency <100
  
• Enemy bases: Size <100
  
• Gleba enemy bases: Frequency <100
  
• Gleba enemy bases: Size <100
  
• No enemies: Turned on
  
• Peaceful mode: Turned on
  
• Starting area: >100
  
• Expansion: Turned off
  
• Maximum expansion distance: <7
  
• Minimum group size: <5
  
• Maximum group size: <20
  
• Minimum cooldown >4: min
  
• Maximum cooldown >90: min
  
• Evolution: Turned off
  
• Time factor <60
  
• Destroy factor <200
  
• Pollution factor <9
  
• Pollution: Turned off
  
• Absorption modifier: >100%
  
• Attack cost modifier: >100%
  
• Minimum to damage trees: >60
  
• Absorbed per damaged tree: >10
  
• Diffusion ratio: <2%

Any, single, one of those settings will disable all the connected achievements. There are 6 of them in the base game, and 4 more in Space Age.
Base game

• It stinks and they don't like it
  
• Keeping your hands clean
  
• Steam all the way
  
• Raining bullets
  
• No time for chitchat
  
• There is no spoon

Space Age

• It stinks and they do like it
  
• Get off my lawn
  
• Work around the clock
  
• Express delivery

There are two special cases not covered by the built-in restrictions and checking. In the base game turning enemies off will not disable them, yet you cannot earn them. Pest control (destroying a spawner) and Steamrolled (destroying 10 spawners by impact) require that there are spawners to destroy. With Space Age loaded, even with enemies off, spawners exist because you need the eggs. In the base game, with enemies off, they don't exist. No spawners to destroy means no achievement for destroying them. They will be enabled, but you can't earn them.

[failsafe]

Thanks for this explanation!

[Sahayak]

Originally posted by failsafe:

By the way, Ive noticed that some rather basic achievements poped up recently. I havent played this game for like two years or something, but I already had most of the basic ones... and now I got some even more basic. Are there some new achievements in the game after 2.0?

Yes, they simplified most of the game mechanics, made everything much easier, and added a ton of achievements. It's like a child's game now where you don't really have to think anymore.

[Bill Wilson]

Not being able to get the trigger attacks achievements with enemy settings reduced is completely illogical. The only reason it was changed was to make it so they show as being unobtainable in peaceful mode or with enemies disabled but it somehow has ended up as being unable to earn them with any enemy settings decreased. So it's in an even worse state than having them show as being obtainable when they actually aren't when in peaceful mode or with enemies disabled because it won't unlock them in many cases when it should. So it's a case of "fixing" a problem (which was ultimately user error) by making a new, bigger problem.

It's even worse if changing the settings on a completely different planet to the planet one of the achievements is on disables it.

[Evilsod]

Wasn't it possible to go back to an earlier patch on the beta branch and you'd still get the old achievement triggers?

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Wasn't it possible to go back to an earlier patch on the beta branch and you'd still get the old achievement triggers?

Two options:

1) Disable the DLC, if you have it, and roll back the beta to 1.1.110. The "old" triggers for the old achievements, all 38, will be restored. There were always a few which required having the enemy bases at 100% or better and peaceful mode off, however.

2) Roll back to 2.0.42, or earlier and have the old rules which don't consider all the extra requirements, but have the new achievements and their triggers available.

Between 1.1.110 and 2.0.42 the only significant changes were adding the new achievements for the base game. (And the extras for Space Age if you have it.) 2.0.43 is when they 'fixed the bug" that was allowing the easier settings on pollution and expansion, and the new rules, as given above, apply to all games started in 2.0.43 or higher.

They did put in a "patch" so that if you have a game started in the 2.0 line but before 2.0.43 then the earlier 2.0 rules apply to that game, but not to new maps. There are enough changes between 2.0.42 and now that the old map-gen and tech setup is a bit 'off' now, so not too many will want to start a game on 2.0.42 and then reload that map in 2.0.60. Either start in 2.0.60, or start - and stay - in 2.0.42.