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Otherwise, good read even if I am not 100% in agreement with everything you said.
Some spaghetti mixed with linear/symmetric logistic is good, but shouldn't be "forced" or "encouraged" over other logistic alternatives. After all, Factorio is the game where the engineer chooses how to design their factory.
This is a harsh criticism, but I say so because I consider it fair - you didn't find any arcane knowledge, you just framed changes to represent a concept you wanted them to represent. And you did it with 500% excessive wordage.
Yes, new planets introduce new puzzles instead of letting you expand the same thing over and over again. No, this is nothing new. That is all.
Oh, certainly. I looked through the tech tree and found a lot of things which could help. Unfortunately, they show up a bit too late. Foundations are Aquilo, Deep Oil Ocean Supports are Fulgora + Vulcanus, etc. I honestly don't want to deal with those planets without these tools, so I made a mod of my own[mods.factorio.com] :) Basically, moves Cliff Explosives back to Nauvis, Planforms to Vulcanus, Deep Supports solely to Fulgora and yeah - Gleba terrain is not that scary.
Funny story, actually. Someone on the Whats a Spoilage[mods.factorio.com] mod was asking for compatibility between that and Spoiling Plant[mods.factorio.com], so I'm currently making that. I want to disable spoilage in the game, and those two mods are a good way of doing it. Just wish they didn't replicate functionality, and I can fix that on my own.
I'm also using Teleogistics[mods.factorio.com] for personal resources - Belts and Inserters and such. It eats up 150MW and like 20 seconds per 48 item transfer, though, so it's both not great for bulk cargo and takes some setup on the planet before it can work without destroying the local electric grid.
That's what I meant by "I give up". Not that I'll stop playing the game, but rather that... I no longer feel motivated to play by the rules. That's the cool thing with mods: if the game doesn't work like I want it to, I can make it work that way :) Within reason, though - there's a lot the API doesn't cover...
Fixed, sorry about that. Having a hard time keeping the names straight in my head :)
Not so much "scandalous" as "fair enough, this isn't what I wanted". The aspect of Factorio which appeals to me by far the most is precisely not needing to keep solving problems which are already solved. With progression, gameplay shifts up in layers of abstraction, and I like that. Being tossed back into the stone age to re-solve already solved issues does not compel me.
I'm not saying that Factorio is a worse game for Space Age. Rather, Space Age isn't the Factorio I wanted. So my solution is to MAKE it the Factorio I wanted via mods. I was already well on the way before posting this, but still trying to pretend I was playing things as intended. All this means is I'm not going to pretend any more.
Might've read the intention wrong then, I stand corrected. Indeed, SA is not for everyone, but then again, this is the case with any and all expansions.
Still too wordy though ;)
If you couldn't win it in 40 hours, start another one.
Just trying to put words to somewhat nebulous thoughts. Even if not much changed in practice, at least it doesn't actively bother me any more. Makes a game a lot more fun as a result... when I get to play it in-between working on mods...
There's no "winning" Factorio, as far as I'm concerned. Launching the rocket or whatever triggers the final achievement in Space Age (probably something to do with the edge of the solar system?) isn't any more the end than hitting level 50 in The Division, or level 30 in Warframe or any other long-term experience.
I'm here to build cool stuff, not "win". It's why I'm not in the slightest concerned with breaking the game's rules when it makes for a better experience. Most of the mods I've published are either "I wish the game worked that way" or "I wish this other person's mod worked that way".
Seriously, however, first and foremost, thank you. A dozen 'thank-you's. Observations, or statements, of why you don't like something, and what you don't like, given as exaclty that - what you don't like, is refreshing. So many posts have been bashing the game, a planet, a development, a mechanic, or the entire dev team, because what the game is, out of the box, is not what they would have made. "I can't do Gleba. Bad game." or a myriad of other such views. Rather, in this one case of many over the months, it's clearly given as a "me" issue, not a 'bad game' issue.
So, again, 'thank you', for saying what is, your path and the DLC's path diverged, and not passing the blame to a 'bad game' or evil WUBE.
Interesting observation. I began in the early part of 1.1, so missed the early-years experience. Nice to know that the progression from then to the end of 1.1 was more than just content additions and bug fixes.
I've tried playing that way. I liked it. Even developed a system of rail prints, world grid locked as well, that were Lego-sytle plug-n-play. Nearly 3k in total. I lamented their loss as soon as the new rails were announced. I have factory prints which are drop and run, for everything at varying levels of abstraction - raw input to full unit output and inputs of just he next-step down intermediates to make the next-step up intermediates. All designed around wagon-load numbers. Yes, trains eliminated everything outside of simple machine-machine transport. Never actually completed a launch with a main bus - too limiting.
However, I also often embrace the pasta machine. The terrain is also fun for me. In my not-so-limited time (15k+), even with a start in 1.1, I've never out grown the spaghetti. I just hide it behind modules. Lately even my rails look like a larger plate of pasta. Elevated rails are going to make even that more twisted!
The state of my last 1.1 game, dropped like last year's socks when 2.0 came out.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3469945871
May you find the game you want within the mod API, and polish it enough to share with the rest of like-minded players.
"Winning" this game is to start playing when the sun is high and next thing you know the sunrise is nigh.
"Winning" this game is to find a puzzle which isn't insta-solved from other puzzles, and then solving it anyway.
"Winning" this game is feeling good with what you did and having fun doing it. Only to know that tomorrow you'll make it better anyway.
Yeah, that was the big "culture shift" that made me post this. I fought the game as hard as I could. Eventually, I just had to admit that this isn't the game Wube wanted to make. The friction wasn't because the intended experience was bad, but because I wasn't actually playing it "as intended". Luckily, this is a game that works just fine when played weird :)
To be fair, the introduction of rails is before my time, as well. I started with 0.15 or 0.16, since I remember juggling then-outdated mods. I more mean that the "nature" of Factorio has shifted as larger and larger scales are more easily supported. The larger the scale, the less players will focus on the minutia and so the simpler individual components become. I suspect Wube (or at least someone at the company) misses those times of messy experimentation and cramped spaghetti.
But yes, Space Age adds relatively little to the "end" of Factorio, so much as it adds a number of parallel paths that need to be walked almost from the start in order to progress. Some people enjoy that. There are a number of "can't drop pods on planets" mods which force the player to effectively start naked on every new planet. I believe the planet Tenebris (mod) is like that by default, but I haven't tried custom planets yet. Still have Gleba and Aquilo to fully explore :)
I think this sums up the ideal Factorio experience perfectly. "The factory must grow to support the growing factory". Every "good" design is only good until the player needs to expand, at which point stress starts to highlight failure points. I'm playing with enemies in "peaceful" mode, so the only problems I ever face are self-made. Not something I've failed to do, not something that just cropped up, but rather the result of putting more and more stress on existing infrastructure until something bottlenecks or something throttles down.
In other words, the hardest challenges are those we cause ourselves by wanting to build bigger and faster.
Vulcanus & Fulgora can be obnoxiously tight, but it's not like you have to megabase pre-Aquilo or anything. I'll agree that Fulgora is a lot more fun after getting foundation + fusion reactors to blow through the constraints.
i like space Age the way it is. but it is just my opinion no more, no less.
compared to the most of you im also quite a newbie.
i like that feeling of beginning fresh... but also building bigger things later on.
Mods make the game great in so many ways. even if i dont play with one at the moment.
but im also the type of player that would start a new game on nauvis and build a factory by hand 5h until robots xD
the important part is, that we have fun with the Game.
i think its cool if you build mods to keep that fun. Maybe i will try out a few mods of you in the future ? :o
so in the End, Thank you <3
This post sounds like the complaint is that you can't megabase out the gate, when you really don't need to megabase to get through Space Age.
You say yourself that you've fought the game as hard as you can - WHY?
It's entirely a problem of your own making and it's really weird.
It's not a matter of "over-scaling". It's a matter of creating clean designs. Whether or not I "need" a megabase to "get through" Space Age doesn't really matter. I want to do that. That's what's fun for me. Scale isn't just about numbers, it's about the ability to work with abstractions, rather than fiddling around with individual tiles and individual structures.
If I only did the minimum necessary to "beat" the game, I'd have been done with it years ago. This reminds me of having to explain to the fine people of City of Heroes why I'd solo in an MMO. Or read all of the dialogue. Or when I asked the Warframe folks where to get a Gorgon LMG, only to be told to get the Soma Prime, instead - a thing which didn't answer my question and which I couldn't do on account of it being vaulted and out of my level range. Or when I asked for help in the Darktide forums, and was in turn asked why I was still playing on Heresy difficulty with my in-game hours. Etc., etc., etc.
Games are my modern-day toys. I go to them for the same reason I went to Lego sets or action figures or board games - not to win them, but to actually have fun along the way. If a game forces me to choose between what I enjoy and what works, I usually move on and find a different game that doesn't force me to make that choice. Factorio has, historically, not done that - largely because it has little in the way of preventing me from breaking the rules. I remember they used to block achievements for using mods - which is fine by me as someone who doesn't care about that. They seem to have relaxed those restrictions to just using console commands from the actual console.
I was fighting the game because I rather enjoyed Factrio 1.1, and wanted more of it. Space Age isn't that, I've finally come to realise. Doesn't mean I can't make it into that by force, though. That's what mods are for.
They explicitly said it was a problem of their own making. One of the most refreshing things I've read in the forum recently. It's not really weird either. It's a play style different than yours, yet closer to mine.
And, now they've just restated that point.
You don't need to megabase to get through the base game either, Not even in 1.1 or 1.0. Still, megabases exist. There must be a reason for them to be so popular. Perhaps it's the satisfaction of seeing the creation grow ever larger, and still keep working as the engineer intended. The victory screen - much nicer in 2.0 - is still a bit of a passing moment.