I love Gleba

[Mercuraz]

Yeah, I thought you'd be asking me why I "love" it. I actually don't. I have spent dozens upon dozens of hours, trying to siphon enough science to get me to get off Gleba. My factory is able to produce rockets and science without too much effort but my REAL gripe is the enemies in the planet! WHY THE HELL DID YOU THINK ADDING SPOILAGE AND ENEMIES TO THE PLANET WAS GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE ENJOY IT??? The enemy spawn rate is WAAAAY too high (like a wave every 30 seconds on my map) which obliterate my base (every single wave includes a Medium Stomper, and I can barely produce a rocket turret fast enough for the life of me). Devs, you have completely destroyed the rest of my patience for this game. I honestly hope you can resolve this.

[Vyndicu]

Postat inițial de CasualGamer:

Reduce your pollution=less attacks on Gleba. Space Age make you think about things you probably ignored before it. Try beaconing efficiency modules. I never get attacked unless I research another level of artillery range.

• 1000 Agricultural Science Pack per minute without any modules needs ~1603.1 Yumako per minute and ~641.3 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Four Productivity Tier 2 Q1 modules drops the needed fruits down to ~1141.9 Yumako per minute and ~456.8 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 modules drop the needed fruits down to ~1505.3 Yumako per minute and ~602 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Productivity Tier 2 Q1 and Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 drop the needed fruits down to ~1214.6 Yumako per minute and ~485.9 Jellynut per minute.

Using beacons dramatically increases the power engineers require for their Gleba factory, which drives up the needed fruits for burnable/electric-generating if they go down that route. It is not worth the time to calculate how much Efficiency modules impact the spore since each beacon has a fixed continuous 480 kW demand.


The best scenario is to use four productivity modules in bioreactors, no matter what.


The best part? The downside of productivity modules, +X% pollution, is that they do not generate more spore. Engineers can overcome the speed downside by using more bioreactors or speed beacons.

[knighttemplar1960]

Postat inițial de Vyndicu:

Postat inițial de CasualGamer:

Reduce your pollution=less attacks on Gleba. Space Age make you think about things you probably ignored before it. Try beaconing efficiency modules. I never get attacked unless I research another level of artillery range.

• 1000 Agricultural Science Pack per minute without any modules needs ~1603.1 Yumako per minute and ~641.3 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Four Productivity Tier 2 Q1 modules drops the needed fruits down to ~1141.9 Yumako per minute and ~456.8 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 modules drop the needed fruits down to ~1505.3 Yumako per minute and ~602 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Productivity Tier 2 Q1 and Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 drop the needed fruits down to ~1214.6 Yumako per minute and ~485.9 Jellynut per minute.

Using beacons dramatically increases the power engineers require for their Gleba factory, which drives up the needed fruits for burnable/electric-generating if they go down that route. It is not worth the time to calculate how much Efficiency modules impact the spore since each beacon has a fixed continuous 480 kW demand.


The best scenario is to use four productivity modules in bioreactors, no matter what.


The best part? The downside of productivity modules, +X% pollution, is that they do not generate more spore. Engineers can overcome the speed downside by using more bioreactors or speed beacons.

Not sure where you are going with this since bioreactors consume nutrients instead of power. Yeah, you can produce nutrients with assemblers from spoilage, fish, or biter eggs but the nutrient cost to breed fish or biter eggs far outweighs what you get back from turning them back into nutrients (I experimented with using fish breeding on Nauvis and using fish as my Gleba set condition for turning the planet on using an S/R latch. There was no way to make it useful) as does nutrients from spoilage.

Productivity modules don't change the electrical requirements for biochambers since the only electricity you use is for inserters. The productivity modules and speed beacons make the biochambers consume more nutrients which means you consume more fruits to make bioflux to make nutrients with and the power is only consumed by the beacons and inserters.

You can drastically cut spore production by producing only ag science, bioflux, and carbon fiber (plus the one time costs of producing the various soils needed on Gleba) on Gleba and producing mineral products for free on Vulcanus and oil products on Fulgora for free and importing them. Pollution has no effect on Fulgora or Vulcanus so you can produce all that with no consequences on those planets and importing those items means no extra fruits required and no extra spore production on Gleba. You can get all the power you want on Gleba by importing free rocket fuel from Fulgora and burning it in heating towers.

[Vyndicu]

Postat inițial de knighttemplar1960:

Postat inițial de Vyndicu:

• 1000 Agricultural Science Pack per minute without any modules needs ~1603.1 Yumako per minute and ~641.3 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Four Productivity Tier 2 Q1 modules drops the needed fruits down to ~1141.9 Yumako per minute and ~456.8 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 modules drop the needed fruits down to ~1505.3 Yumako per minute and ~602 Jellynut per minute.
• Using Two Productivity Tier 2 Q1 and Two Efficiency Tier 2 Q1 drop the needed fruits down to ~1214.6 Yumako per minute and ~485.9 Jellynut per minute.

Using beacons dramatically increases the power engineers require for their Gleba factory, which drives up the needed fruits for burnable/electric-generating if they go down that route. It is not worth the time to calculate how much Efficiency modules impact the spore since each beacon has a fixed continuous 480 kW demand.


The best scenario is to use four productivity modules in bioreactors, no matter what.


The best part? The downside of productivity modules, +X% pollution, is that they do not generate more spore. Engineers can overcome the speed downside by using more bioreactors or speed beacons.

Not sure where you are going with this since bioreactors consume nutrients instead of power. Yeah, you can produce nutrients with assemblers from spoilage, fish, or biter eggs but the nutrient cost to breed fish or biter eggs far outweighs what you get back from turning them back into nutrients (I experimented with using fish breeding on Nauvis and using fish as my Gleba set condition for turning the planet on using an S/R latch. There was no way to make it useful) as does nutrients from spoilage.

Productivity modules don't change the electrical requirements for biochambers since the only electricity you use is for inserters. The productivity modules and speed beacons make the biochambers consume more nutrients which means you consume more fruits to make bioflux to make nutrients with and the power is only consumed by the beacons and inserters.

You can drastically cut spore production by producing only ag science, bioflux, and carbon fiber (plus the one time costs of producing the various soils needed on Gleba) on Gleba and producing mineral products for free on Vulcanus and oil products on Fulgora for free and importing them. Pollution has no effect on Fulgora or Vulcanus so you can produce all that with no consequences on those planets and importing those items means no extra fruits required and no extra spore production on Gleba. You can get all the power you want on Gleba by importing free rocket fuel from Fulgora and burning it in heating towers.

I recommend taking this opportunity to learn that overgeneralization can lead to making a false equivalence.


Incorporating electric beacons into bioreactor fruit production lines is leading to a growing demand for burnable fruit products in heat towers or boilers. However, it's important to emphasize that this does not mean transforming the bioreactor into an electric-powered machine.


The amount of fruit required to meet the increased nutrient demands by adding productivity modules in the bioreactor is significantly lower overall because the bioflux-to-nutrient bioreactors have four productivity modules. This setup provides a considerable boost in nutrient production, which helps offset the need for additional nutrients to operate the bioreactors across the entire fruit production lines.

[Defektiv]

Postat inițial de kremlin:

I've found that Gleba's enemies spread incredibly slowly compared to Nauvis biters. So much so that until I set it up to never actually stop, whenever it would halt I would have to go on long expeditions to get the eggs to restart production. Longer every time. Even after a whole lotta hours on my Space Age save, Gleba's enemies still take ages to ever become a threat again. What did you do wrong?

They adjusted it after launch, it was pretty bad before. The solution that worked for me was researching rocket damage. The stompers are the main threat as they have huge AOE and can go directly over the walls. Everything else for enemies falls against a wall like normal biters. So getting stompers neutralized before they can breach a wall that other enemies can get through should be top priority. It was about 5 or so levels in the infinite research for rocket damage before normal quality turrets were able to handle that threat for me.

Gleba enemies also prioritize farms so for me success came with walls, gun turrets with red ammo in the first line, lasers and rockets with normal ammo in the second line and teslas behind that. Everything was covered by roboports stocked with repair packs and building everything except teslas is super easy in a properly balanced Gleba base. Every further level of research into rocket damage made defense easier and I have not had problems on Gleba since.

[End of history]

I genuinely love Gleba, but I think my pentapods are broken. I have cleared them out completely under the spore cloud and they haven't expanded back in in tens of hours. I am playing on rail world, but I reactivated expansions because I think turning them off is a bit.... well.... lame for me, but I'm never going to tell anyone else how to play the game.

[Hurkyl]

I've heard rumors that pentapods don't cross high ground (i.e the dry biomes) in expanding, so maybe it's possible to permanently clear an area surrounded by such?

[knighttemplar1960]

Postat inițial de Vyndicu:

I recommend taking this opportunity to learn that overgeneralization can lead to making a false equivalence.

Incorporating electric beacons into bioreactor fruit production lines is leading to a growing demand for burnable fruit products in heat towers or boilers. However, it's important to emphasize that this does not mean transforming the bioreactor into an electric-powered machine.


The amount of fruit required to meet the increased nutrient demands by adding productivity modules in the bioreactor is significantly lower overall because the bioflux-to-nutrient bioreactors have four productivity modules. This setup provides a considerable boost in nutrient production, which helps offset the need for additional nutrients to operate the bioreactors across the entire fruit production lines.

If you produce rocket fuel for free on Fulgora and export it to Gleba, you can burn the free rocket fuel in heating towers to make power to run beacons instead of increasing spore production to make extra fruits to turn into rocket fuel from jelly that has to be made in a biochamber using nutrients that are best made from bioflux which also requires extra fruit to produce nutrients to power the bioreactors that make the bioflux.

I can use the exact same set up you are talking about as far as productivity modules and beacons go but importing free rocket fuel for power reduces the number of entities needed on Gleba, the number of nurtrients needed per second, reduces the total amount of spoilage, and reduces the total number of spores released.

Any design you care to make I can copy and still reduce spore production by stripping out all the products you make on Gleba that can be made for free on other planets and importing. This also allows a smaller and more compact base on Gleba that is easier to defend, which coincidentally reduces the need for ammunition/power produced using bioproducts which further reduces the generation of spores.

[knighttemplar1960]

Postat inițial de Hurkyl:

I've heard rumors that pentapods don't cross high ground (i.e the dry biomes) in expanding, so maybe it's possible to permanently clear an area surrounded by such?

I don't think that's a rumor. according to the wiki:
Expansions

Expansions on Gleba function mostly similar to expansions on Nauvis, except that pentapods only create spawners in marshes, and will never create nests on other tiles.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Enemies

[Habba]

Hugs bro! Same story here. Gleba is stupid idea

[Hurkyl]

Postat inițial de knighttemplar1960:

Postat inițial de Hurkyl:

I've heard rumors that pentapods don't cross high ground (i.e the dry biomes) in expanding, so maybe it's possible to permanently clear an area surrounded by such?

I don't think that's a rumor. according to the wiki:
Expansions

Expansions on Gleba function mostly similar to expansions on Nauvis, except that pentapods only create spawners in marshes, and will never create nests on other tiles.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Enemies

There is still a gap between the rumor and the wiki excerpt in whether pentapods will travel over dry land to establish an expansion.

[knighttemplar1960]

Postat inițial de Hurkyl:

Postat inițial de knighttemplar1960:

I don't think that's a rumor. according to the wiki:
Expansions

Expansions on Gleba function mostly similar to expansions on Nauvis, except that pentapods only create spawners in marshes, and will never create nests on other tiles.

https://wiki.factorio.com/Enemies

There is still a gap between the rumor and the wiki excerpt in whether pentapods will travel over dry land to establish an expansion.

They will still follow the rules for expansions on Nauvis:

Every 4-60 minutes, a group of 5-20 biters/spitters will leave their base to create a new base which will consist of as many worms/nests as there are members in the group. This group will search for a suitable spot that's 3-7 chunks away from existing bases. The interval between enemy expansions is global, and the higher enemy evolution, the shorter the interval is on average. Furthermore, with higher evolution, the groups are bigger on average.
-----------------------------------------------------
You can plan your defenses around how many chunks of non-marsh terrain is available. If there are all ready rafts at the 3 chunk mark and there is 4 chunks worth of non-marsh terrain they will be prevented from expanding due to the minimum and maximum expansion distances. I've used the same trick on Nauvis with cliffs and water and it works on islands in lakes that are fewer than 4 chunks in diameter. The bugs are stuck in the chunk they started in an can't expand out of it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3260192028
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3260191979

[GAMING_Alligator]

Why would you want rocket turrets?

Just import a few artillery turrets from Vulcanus and never have to deal with stompers again.

And fortify your perimeter with tesla turrets from Fulgora to deal with any strays.

[End of history]

I mean.... I did build a wall around my base, but with no guns on it. Once a few groups crashed through it.... but I dunno. It's not like I mind defending my base, it's part of the game, and Gleba is a great challenge.

[MAX]

If you are getting attacked every 30 seconds on Gleba, you probably are following a bad strategy.

The enemy expansion on Gleba is far less aggressive than on Nauvis. Try to destroy all egg rafts within the pollution cloud, and you will soon find out that Gleba is not that bad after all.

[Vyndicu]

Postat inițial de knighttemplar1960:

If you produce rocket fuel for free on Fulgora and export it to Gleba, you can burn the free rocket fuel in heating towers to make power to run beacons instead of increasing spore production to make extra fruits to turn into rocket fuel from jelly that has to be made in a biochamber using nutrients that are best made from bioflux which also requires extra fruit to produce nutrients to power the bioreactors that make the bioflux.

I can use the exact same set up you are talking about as far as productivity modules and beacons go but importing free rocket fuel for power reduces the number of entities needed on Gleba, the number of nurtrients needed per second, reduces the total amount of spoilage, and reduces the total number of spores released.

Any design you care to make I can copy and still reduce spore production by stripping out all the products you make on Gleba that can be made for free on other planets and importing. This also allows a smaller and more compact base on Gleba that is easier to defend, which coincidentally reduces the need for ammunition/power produced using bioproducts which further reduces the generation of spores.

The Gleba setup I use can produce approximately 25 rocket fuel per minute while consuming only ~93.4 Yumako per minute and ~72.7 Jellynut per minute. The setup has all productivity modules in bioreactors.

We do know that each fruit-bearing plant produces 50 fruits for 15 spores.

That translates to ~49.83 spores per minute.

Math: ( ( ~93.4 Yumako per minute + ~72.7 Jellynut per minute ) / (50 fruit ) ) * ( 15 spores per harvest ) = 49.83 spores per minute.

That might seem like a lot at first glance, but when I return to the 1k agricultural science pack fruit intake, I calculate how much spore that setup generates.

Math: ( ( ~1141.9 Yumako per minute + ~456.8 Jellynut per minute ) / ( 50 fruit per harvest ) ) * ( 15 spores per harvest ) = ~479.61 spores per minute.



Whether I produce rocket fuel locally doesn't make a meaningful difference in the size of the area that I have to defend, as an extra ~50 spores per minute are spread among dozens of tiles, with the most significant contribution being the agricultural science pack production line by a large margin.

Different tiles absorb a different amount of spores per minute on Gleba. Ideally, the engineer will want to place their fruit farms near a large body of water tiles. Water tiles are not difficult to find in large quantities on Gleba due to the natural barrier to fauna expansions and spore absorption.

Turning off Agricultural Science Pack production is the only thing that has a meaningful impact on the size of the spore cloud, regardless of whether it is a temporal or long-term pause in production.



Shipping Fulgora rocket fuel to Gleba is not entirely free of opportunity costs. The Fulgora factory either imports or locally produces several key ingredients: processing/blue circuits, light-density structures, and rocket fuels. These components are necessary for the Fulgora rocket silo to export rocket fuel to Gleba.

Keep in mind that I am trying to reduce fruit production by nearly 30% through the universal use of productivity modules. Generating a single extra end product for a small amount of spore is negligible. Agricultural science pack production is the primary source of spores by a large factor, and the 30% reduction from productivity modules greatly impacts this more than the removal of a single low-demand end-product from the Gleba factory.



All worlds, even Aquilo, have a readily available alternative source of rocket fuel through different inputs, recipes, and production chains.

I believe that is a subtle hint by WUBE developers that we should ideally not ship rocket fuel everywhere.

Regardless, there is nothing inherent wrong with shipping rocket fuel per se to Gleba. Likewise, there is nothing inherently wrong with producing rocket fuel locally on Gleba either.



I am going to a bit of a tangent topic and bear with me for a moment. There is still an alternative using late-game technologies that has been mentioned by people but works much better and is something I plan to utilize myself.

https://factoriolab.github.io/spa/list?z=eJwFwb1uwjAUgNG38fBJqfhRiRk8kHvjJENTJIIFOxZp06hSBgTLfXbO-Q-S2Xy6HGjdHHpWbsnPUO2RA3JETkhG7iYj2qKD6Rm9oKPpDzqZ.lELdUvsiSfi2WIizjRKs6UprfF0d7pfUrJ0Jd0sTeQd5YtyS-nx3.gBf8Xf8BPFhWKkWPjYUElllXy5eV5Cb7V1drTBPcJ6.QZsnDOC&v=11


Statistics for those who don't want to check the link:

• 25 rocket fuel produced per minute
• 18.4 Yumako fruit per minute
• 7.4 Jellynut fruit per minute
• 4.1 biter eggs imported from Nauvis for spoilage/nutrient/carbon
• 4.1 Bioflux export from Gleba to Nauvis for biter eggs production

There also exist some modifications to simplify the overall petroleum industry on Gleba.

Moving carbon/sulfur/coal to use asteroid processing instead of fruits, which reduces the fruits need to a paltry 0.2 Yumako and 0.1 Jellynut per minute for 25 rocket fuel per minute.

Engineers with access to biter eggs should be moving to this late-game production method.



TD:LR: Back to the thread at hand, the OP is an engineer who is frustrated with the amount of spore their setup generates. Adding productivity modules only requires early-game technology that is possible to unlock on Nauvis before going into space.

It is inadvisable to recommend late-game technologies to a new engineer who is unfamiliar and frustrated with Gleba and without access to late-game technologies.