Base expansion problems

[Septimus]

Hello everyone
I have a problem and I don't know if my game has a solution. I'm playing with the expansion purchased and without any mod, I haven't left the main planet yet because I would like to unlock everything I can unlock, and I'm at the point of the game with a considerably large base, using trains to bring minerals from distant mines and it is with the latter that I have problems. You can imagine that at this point bitters are already a problem to always keep in mind (I get green bitters from time to time, just so you understand). My way of going to these distant mines is only to clean the areas close to where the train tracks are going to pass and then clean the mine area as well. In the mine itself I make a wall that surrounds the whole mine with its double rows of laser turrets and that's it. The problem is getting to me right now because these mines are getting further and further away, so I can't just clear the areas where the bitters are going to pass through, because when my robots go to build the mine in question, there are so many nests between the space between the mine and my base, that none of the robots can practically reach it, so I come here to ask for help on what are the fastest/efficient ways to clear nests, because although I have recently unlocked the tank cannon shots, I feel that I still spend a lot of time clearing the nests

To give you an idea, here's a picture of my game:

https://ibb.co/Tq4j5CK

I'm considering restarting the game, but it hurts to do it after 75 hours of gameplay :)

[Pay Child Suport]

in my first and second spaghetti playthrough i never went that deep red in pollution.

first one was so spaghetti that i stopped at blue science.
second i managed to launch the rocket (after the 6 sciences) then stopped.

and both playthroughs I never gotten the green biters. how are you that red in pollution like what are you producing?

at this point I'm just relying on blueprints since I've technically beaten the vanilla game.

[Septimus]

Originally posted by Pay Child Suport:

in my first and second spaghetti playthrough i never went that deep red in pollution.

first one was so spaghetti that i stopped at blue science.
second i managed to launch the rocket (after the 6 sciences) then stopped.

and both playthroughs I never gotten the green biters. how are you that red in pollution like what are you producing?

at this point I'm just relying on blueprints since I've technically beaten the vanilla game.

I have a total of 432 electric furnaces, obviously spread over the different basic materials. I think it is mainly the assemblers I have that generate so much pollution. For example, for green chips, I have a total of 68 assemblers (by that number I mean the assemblers needed to make copper wire and so on, not 68 assemblers just for green chips).

This is my first game to get this far

[Maltsi]

Don't use bots to build mining outposts would be obvious solution. You can make small separate bot network and deliver required things there with train if you can't bring all of them in one go in person.

[Chindraba]

First part of the solution is going to be switching from a global bot net to local nets.

Since you need trains to make the mines work, use trains to make the mines. Have the trains carry out the supplies and build a bot net locally. Make the local bots do the work and then collect them up and take them 'home'. No more bots flying over enemy territory.

A global bot net is only save if you have the entire area secure. You don't, so don't use it.

My next suggestion would be to switch to flame throwers for your defense. They will be a lot cheaper to use and easier to expand as needed. You can run them off of straight crude oil pumped from the ground, probably using a single well somewhere close to the mine instead of running pipes with the rails.

After switching the mine defense to flamers, use the lasers to 'cage' the spawners. Build the lasers around a nest. Set the distance so they don't hit the spawners but will kill any biters that spawn. After built you'll only get 1 or 2 biters at a time, so not much power used. The spawners will keep absorbing pollution and help reduce that problem.

At some point, sooner rather than later, you also should look into using green modules. If you can keep the pollution cloud from getting to nests you have not caged, the attacks will be a much smaller problem for the mine defenses.

[Septimus]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

First part of the solution is going to be switching from a global bot net to local nets.

Since you need trains to make the mines work, use trains to make the mines. Have the trains carry out the supplies and build a bot net locally. Make the local bots do the work and then collect them up and take them 'home'. No more bots flying over enemy territory.

A global bot net is only save if you have the entire area secure. You don't, so don't use it.

My next suggestion would be to switch to flame throwers for your defense. They will be a lot cheaper to use and easier to expand as needed. You can run them off of straight crude oil pumped from the ground, probably using a single well somewhere close to the mine instead of running pipes with the rails.

After switching the mine defense to flamers, use the lasers to 'cage' the spawners. Build the lasers around a nest. Set the distance so they don't hit the spawners but will kill any biters that spawn. After built you'll only get 1 or 2 biters at a time, so not much power used. The spawners will keep absorbing pollution and help reduce that problem.

At some point, sooner rather than later, you also should look into using green modules. If you can keep the pollution cloud from getting to nests you have not caged, the attacks will be a much smaller problem for the mine defenses.

With your answer I think that the issue of transporting the materials I need to the mine I like the idea, I will make a list of logistics, the inventory one, for when I create a new mine, I like that idea.

Now, the issue of the flamethrower, I would like that idea if it wasn't for the fact that in my game I can't easily find oil (I have the settings untouched, the default ones, both the frequency and the amount of resources that each mine gives), so I see it very difficult to use the flamethrower without using pipes as you say. At best I'll try to locate an oil field and use it exclusively for the flamethrowers in the distant minefields, extending the pipes (with the liquid pumpers I discovered that you can extend as many pipes as you want if you put them in from time to time).

[Letheral]

ik its considered heresy but efficiency modules work wonders,especially for mining drills.
you only need level 1 eff. modules for most production facilities to reach the -80% cap.
additionally, funk down objects (solarpanels f.e.) whereever you dont want the biters to expand to.
have a look: (might spoiler you tho)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3394009436
i have yet to build a single piece of wall and somehow biters respect set boundaries ))

[Maltsi]

Flamethrowers requires very little fuel, you can bring that with 1 fluid wagon from your current oil field. It will not harm your production in base since its so small amount

[Chindraba]

The flamers use so little oil that they can run off of an oil deposit too small to use for production. Even a single pink dot on the map is good enough for many flamers.

In 1.1, where distance mattered to flow, I could keep oil in a line of nearly 300 flamers from one depleted oil pump. Now you have to have a pump every 320 tiles, or is it 350, whatever, the game will tell you when you need one. With the flow only depending on the pumps, you could probably use one pipe of oil (with a crap tonne of pipes) to fuel the flamers of all the mines. I wouldn't, because the pipes can be a problem when driving the tank (I kill more pipes than the biters do) and all that iron might be useful elsewhere. Still, with some creativity and inspiration I'm sure you can find the 'balance'.

You could even just reserve one or two slots in a cargo wagon and put crude oil barrels in it. Let the mine, or what ever station is involved, pull out barrels as need to top off their supply of oil. The new train interrupt feature would allow you to add a stop to restock the oil on the train when it gets low instead of having to make it reload at every trip. Flamers only use 3 oil/sec when shooting and 2 slots of barrels would give 1000 oil, that's a bunch of flames for the biter BBQ party.

You could make a second train stop where a single oil tanker train stops to top off local tanks and use logic to only call for more oil when the supply is low. You'd be surprised how seldom that train would actually have to run.

[königplatzen]

Originally posted by Letheral:

i have yet to build a single piece of wall and somehow biters respect set boundaries ))

Is it biter expansion off / railworld preset.
Otherwise, the biters probably grow back into the pollution cloud

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Letheral:

ik its considered heresy but efficiency modules work wonders,especially for mining drills.
you only need level 1 eff. modules for most production facilities to reach the -80% cap.
additionally, funk down objects (solarpanels f.e.) whereever you dont want the biters to expand to.
have a look: (might spoiler you tho)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3394009436
i have yet to build a single piece of wall and somehow biters respect set boundaries ))

Why would it be heresy? 2 tier 2 or 3 tier 1 modules are pretty good early on.
Miners are a pretty significant chunk of power before you start scaling up and getting into stronger assemblers and beacons. Same thing with electric furnaces. And you get double benefit by also having your steam boilers running less.

[Chindraba]

Some players consider eff modules as worthless parts of the game. In general the idea is to make more and do it faster. That requires, among other things, using speed and/or prod modules. Eff modules 'waste' a slot which could be used more productively.

Of course there are other players who think pollution, and annoying the natives is part of the engineer's birthright and duty.

For many players, like myself, pollution is simply a non-issue. I don't monitor it or its spread much at all. I just make my factory. Sometimes, when the mood arises, I do look at the map and clear out the closest nests if the pollution has gotten strong in the area. Basically, make pollution is what factories do, attack polluters is what bugs do, kill bugs is what I do.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

Some players consider eff modules as worthless parts of the game. In general the idea is to make more and do it faster. That requires, among other things, using speed and/or prod modules. Eff modules 'waste' a slot which could be used more productively.

Of course there are other players who think pollution, and annoying the natives is part of the engineer's birthright and duty.

For many players, like myself, pollution is simply a non-issue. I don't monitor it or its spread much at all. I just make my factory. Sometimes, when the mood arises, I do look at the map and clear out the closest nests if the pollution has gotten strong in the area. Basically, make pollution is what factories do, attack polluters is what bugs do, kill bugs is what I do.

If your starting coal patches are into the millions, or you gave yourself a massive starting area, or you disabled biter expansion, you probably don't need to care about your boilers running more.
Not everyone is playing on the same settings, or has the same experience with the game, so what some people say is irrelevant.
If you're playing on default settings, and are new to the game, you will probably benefit from minimising pollution and resource consumption on miners/furnaces. That'll be even more important once you move to another planet and you need to let it take care of itself and manage it remotely.

[Chindraba]

I had the pleasure of ignorance on my first game. I didn't realize I could re-roll the seed, let alone adjust anything. I landed on a desert start and had the 'fun' early in the game. I can't drive the car or tank without being more deadly to myself and the factory than the bugs. Again, because of ignorance, I didn't realize the Wiki existed and failed to realize that the forums existed. I played the game blind and unassisted. Managed to get the rocket up in around 200 hrs. with high evolution. In the process I found one way, not the best by any ones measure, of dealing with the locals.

In that time I never worried about pollution. Not because I didn't care, however, but because I didn't even know it existed, let alone mattered. Controlling pollution is certainly one, rather effective, part of keeping the attacks low. I don't preach against it, nor do I consider it heresy. I have encountered those who do. I've also dealt with a few experts at controlling it. I've learned tricks I'd never have even guessed. Yet, with my playstyle - greatly influenced by my first game - it's just something I mostly ignore. I can spend the resources to make eff mods or to create eviction notices. I don't think either method is 'better'. I just think that each has its costs and requirements attached to its benefits. In my informal evaluations it's an even trade. The only time there's a real issue is when trying to mix the two together.

Edit: as an example of how blind I can be, I've played the demo, and the tutorial several times. On my third run though the demo of 2.0 I noticed one of the "comments" of the engineer about the locals not liking the pollution. It's been there since I first played. I downloaded and ran the demo from when I started and it was there. Yet in all those runs I've failed to notice the hint about pollution until now.
(Note to Steam players, the 2.0 demo is still in the experimental branch and the demo on Steam is still 1.1.110.)

[Chris!!]

Get a mk 2 power armour and load it with personal laser defences (10 should set you right), and a portable fission reactor to provide power for all the turrets 1:1, then fill the remaining spots with batteries, exoskeletons, maybe some energy shields and an extra fission reactor just to be on the safe side. Make sure you have laser damage and speed researched as far as you can, or at least until you start needing space science.

Equip a rocket launcher with normal rockets and a flamethrower, go to the nests bothering you and blast them with rockets. The enemies will retaliate, so prepare to kite them around with your high movement speed while your turrets melt them. If green biters gives you trouble, douse them in fire and let them burn.

Keep doing this until the nests are gone or your batteries needs recharging, in which case just take a short break and continue the massacre until it's done. Make sure to look for chokepoints on the map to expand your defences, then kill everything on your side of the chokepoint so they can't expand back into your factory.

--

Alternatively if you want to do a restart or when you're gonna start a new game, unlock red bullets along with at least 2 points of physical projectile damage and speed (research more damage and speed as you go), fill your inventory with bullets and a stack of gun turrets, then go massacre some nests while they're still weak by placing down turrets next to their nests and fill them with bullets to let them hose down on them and the small biters.

Keep doing this until you find natural chokepoints in all directions for you to set up defences, especially if there's oil and other natural resources in those areas, the tighter the chokepoint the better. Don't greed for every patch of iron or copper, you will find plenty of it inside your zone already.

Set up walls and gun turrets to ensure the biters don't try to expand back into your territory, then reinforce the walls by placing flamethrower turrets and a very long line of oil for fueling them.

I've done this strategy with one of my friends and it's been great. 1 hour of massacre saves us 10+ hours of having to run back and forth tending to our defences because of the pollution touching 3 bases at once.

[knighttemplar1960]

Lasers are expensive on power and have he lowest DPS of all the turrets. Their strong points are ease of use and moderate range. Since they do not use ammunition they do not get the game's ammunition bonuses. Flamethrower turrets are cheap on fuel, have longer range, and treat the oil as ammunition so you get the bonus. Switching out some lasers for flamethrowers will greatly increase your DPS, range, and incidentally decrease your pollution.

If you are still using coal for power instead of nuclear that would explain some of your pollution problem. Eff I modules in your miners AND your electric furnaces will significantly cut down on pollution. Once you switch to nuclear and dismantle the coal plants you can better afford the lasers for power while reducing pollution production and switch to production and speed modules for your electric furnaces.

Another solution you can use along with separate robot networks is bunkers along your railroad tracks. The bugs will only settle new nests a certain distance from items you have constructed. To keep them away from your tracks and trains you can build small defense outposts with nothing but weapons to keep the bugs from getting too close to your rails. You can also keep a tank in each bunker and deliver shells by train. Tanks can be driven remotely and can be used to clear out problem spots while you are on the other side of the map.