Asteroid Productivity research has caused imbalanced ratios leading to production deadlocks

[Spears]

At base level, the advanced carbonic crushing was enough to provide for exactly 1 coal synthesis, and 2 explosive. After researching the asteroid yield upgrades, the crusher gets full with sulfur and seizes up with a full output, thus no longer able to produce carbon to keep producing.
Not sure how to handle this without redoiing all platform builds to allow for throwing off the side

[god bless you]

combination recipes: sulfur + carbon / carbon
sulfur + carbon recipe: always running
enable carbon recipe only if sulfur = zero
disable carbon recipe if carbon > 0
you will have both sulfur and carbon without throwing anything

[Spears]

Originally posted by god bless you:

combination recipes: sulfur + carbon / carbon
sulfur + carbon recipe: always running
enable carbon recipe only if sulfur = zero
disable carbon recipe if carbon > 0
you will have both sulfur and carbon without throwing anything

thanks

[Hurkyl]

Asteroid productivity doesn't change the carbon-to-sulfur balance: it changes the timing of the crafts. I can imagine that solution accidentally fixing the problem, if the other crusher just runs a single time to get a little bit of excess carbon in the system and never runs again.

[RiO]

Could always snake a belt out to the side of the platform to dispose of surplus by throwing it into space.

Read content on the crusher, and if it holds no sulfur but more than e.g. 10 carbon, add carbon to the filters of an inserter setting it onto the belt to be thrown into space. Some condition (on the same decider combinator even) the other way around for if it blocks on too much sulfur.

[Entropy]

Any recipe that produces 2 or more stuff, u need to get rid of the excess to prevent "output full". Just throw the excess to the space by either splitter priority or "read all belts" circuit condition. Dont waste your space and energy requirement on recycler to get rid of.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Any recipe that produces 2 or more stuff, u need to get rid of the excess to prevent "output full". Just throw the excess to the space by either splitter priority or "read all belts" circuit condition. Dont waste your space and energy requirement on recycler to get rid of.

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

So the problem the OP describes sounds like a buffering issue. Although I'm having trouble figuring out a failure mode where the crusher is full of sulfur. The failure mode I'd expect is if coal synthesis gets the carbon, explosives gets all the sulfur, and the crusher is blocked from doing more crafts by being full of carbon.

(Unless this is is a system that involves several crushers or something else is going on, like carbon being sent elsewhere)

It would be nice to see screenshots of the setup and all of the inventories involved to diagnose exactly how it went wrong.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Any recipe that produces 2 or more stuff, u need to get rid of the excess to prevent "output full". Just throw the excess to the space by either splitter priority or "read all belts" circuit condition. Dont waste your space and energy requirement on recycler to get rid of.

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

Eventually there will be excess. Calcite is more produced then needed in contrast to ice, so you need to get rid of it. Same for iron,copper ore recipe (Iron is always more). Yeah sure, it is perfect ratio if you don't use prod modules but op always should design this in mind and get used to it for other recipes . It is an healthy mind-set and will always be useful. I agree that after 15+ asteroid productivity u don't need to use prod modules for explosives though. For shattered planet, 4 legendary advanced carbon crushers(1 speed module each no beacon) were enough to produce 50 explosives (12 red rocket, 8 normal rocket, 4 railgun ammo) per second (with prod modules of course) in , thus prod modules helps u with space.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

There will be always excess. Calcite is more produced then needed in contrast to ice, so you need to get rid of it. Same for iron,copper ore recipe (Iron is always more). Yeah sure, it is perfect ratio if you don't use prod modules but op always should design this in mind and get used to it for other recipes . It is an healthy mind-set and will always be useful. I agree that after 15+ asteroid productivity u don't need to use prod modules for explosives though. For shattered planet, 4 legendary advanced carbon crushers(1 speed module each no beacon) were enough to produce 50 explosives (12 red rocket, 8 normal rocket, 4 railgun ammo) per second (with prod modules of course) in , thus prod modules helps u with space.

I agree it's a good pattern. But keeping the exact ratio lets you aim for more compact builds that don't need outlet belts, so there's an advantage to knowing how to make it unneeded here.

I tend not to run out of asteroid chunks in my builds and went the reprocessing route, so I treat asteroids as an unlimited resource. So productivity modules in coal synthesis would actually be counterproductive anyways until I finally get around to making a beaconified platform. I'm not sure which way I'll prefer when I do, though.

[RiO]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Any recipe that produces 2 or more stuff, u need to get rid of the excess to prevent "output full". Just throw the excess to the space by either splitter priority or "read all belts" circuit condition. Dont waste your space and energy requirement on recycler to get rid of.

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

So the problem the OP describes sounds like a buffering issue. Although I'm having trouble figuring out a failure mode where the crusher is full of sulfur. The failure mode I'd expect is if coal synthesis gets the carbon, explosives gets all the sulfur, and the crusher is blocked from doing more crafts by being full of carbon.

Yup. That's exactly the failure mode you will get if you have a set up with three sulfur-filtered inserters direct-inserting sulfur into two explosives chem plants and snaking a small belt towards another chem plant for coal synthesis, which also direct inserts into those two explosives plants. A design shown on stream also by Nilaus iirc.

Inserters are daisy chained in order. So you get 1,2,3,12,3,etc. While actually, what you should get is 1,2,2,3,1,2,2,3. (assuming the 2nd feeds the coal synthesis.)

It's incredibly hard to hit the failure state, because as soon as one of the machines jams, surplus automatically flows to the other, so it should self-correct. But personally, I have in fact seen that very setup fail.

[GAMING_Alligator]

You can just dump the excess over the side of the platform when the belt fills up.

[Spears]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Any recipe that produces 2 or more stuff, u need to get rid of the excess to prevent "output full". Just throw the excess to the space by either splitter priority or "read all belts" circuit condition. Dont waste your space and energy requirement on recycler to get rid of.

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

So the problem the OP describes sounds like a buffering issue. Although I'm having trouble figuring out a failure mode where the crusher is full of sulfur. The failure mode I'd expect is if coal synthesis gets the carbon, explosives gets all the sulfur, and the crusher is blocked from doing more crafts by being full of carbon.

(Unless this is is a system that involves several crushers or something else is going on, like carbon being sent elsewhere)

It would be nice to see screenshots of the setup and all of the inventories involved to diagnose exactly how it went wrong.

at default the ratios are exact however something becomes unbalanced after researching asteroid processing productivity upgrades

Originally posted by GAMING_Alligator:

You can just dump the excess over the side of the platform when the belt fills up.

i had built the platform as compact as a could so there was no tile room to snake a belt to throw off the side. I had not anticipated the crushers to lock up with full output after the tech upgrades

[Spears]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

Eventually there will be excess. Calcite is more produced then needed in contrast to ice, so you need to get rid of it. Same for iron,copper ore recipe (Iron is always more). Yeah sure, it is perfect ratio if you don't use prod modules but op always should design this in mind and get used to it for other recipes . It is an healthy mind-set and will always be useful. I agree that after 15+ asteroid productivity u don't need to use prod modules for explosives though. For shattered planet, 4 legendary advanced carbon crushers(1 speed module each no beacon) were enough to produce 50 explosives (12 red rocket, 8 normal rocket, 4 railgun ammo) per second (with prod modules of course) in , thus prod modules helps u with space.

the calcite issue can be solved by putting storage tanks for liquid copper/iron for the foundaries

[Spears]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

... only if there is excess.

Advanced carbonic crushing produces carbon and sulfur in the exact ratio for making explosives, if you do not use productivity modules in coal synthesis.

So the problem the OP describes sounds like a buffering issue. Although I'm having trouble figuring out a failure mode where the crusher is full of sulfur. The failure mode I'd expect is if coal synthesis gets the carbon, explosives gets all the sulfur, and the crusher is blocked from doing more crafts by being full of carbon.

Yup. That's exactly the failure mode you will get if you have a set up with three sulfur-filtered inserters direct-inserting sulfur into two explosives chem plants and snaking a small belt towards another chem plant for coal synthesis, which also direct inserts into those two explosives plants. A design shown on stream also by Nilaus iirc.

Inserters are daisy chained in order. So you get 1,2,3,12,3,etc. While actually, what you should get is 1,2,2,3,1,2,2,3. (assuming the 2nd feeds the coal synthesis.)

It's incredibly hard to hit the failure state, because as soon as one of the machines jams, surplus automatically flows to the other, so it should self-correct. But personally, I have in fact seen that very setup fail.

at asteroid productivity 8 the failure state is constant for me. I am not sure exactly at what level it broke. I think it was somewhere after 5 or 6

[RiO]

Originally posted by Spears:

Originally posted by RiO:

Yup. That's exactly the failure mode you will get if you have a set up with three sulfur-filtered inserters direct-inserting sulfur into two explosives chem plants and snaking a small belt towards another chem plant for coal synthesis, which also direct inserts into those two explosives plants. A design shown on stream also by Nilaus iirc.

Inserters are daisy chained in order. So you get 1,2,3,12,3,etc. While actually, what you should get is 1,2,2,3,1,2,2,3. (assuming the 2nd feeds the coal synthesis.)

It's incredibly hard to hit the failure state, because as soon as one of the machines jams, surplus automatically flows to the other, so it should self-correct. But personally, I have in fact seen that very setup fail.

at asteroid productivity 8 the failure state is constant for me. I am not sure exactly at what level it broke. I think it was somewhere after 5 or 6

Hazarding a guess - this probably has something to do with the output capacity.
Carbon output grows faster than sulfur output, so eventually the sheer scale will cause it to hit output capacity and block further recipe iterations, blocking the one more iteration the sulfur would need to compensate.

Combine that with high inserter hand-size directing sulfur output to one machine and one machine only per recipe iteration, and you've got the failure state on hand.

Out of curiosity: have you tried fixating the sulfur-transferring inserters' hand-size at something like 1 or 2?

[Spears]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Spears:

at asteroid productivity 8 the failure state is constant for me. I am not sure exactly at what level it broke. I think it was somewhere after 5 or 6

Hazarding a guess - this probably has something to do with the output capacity.
Carbon output grows faster than sulfur output, so eventually the sheer scale will cause it to hit output capacity and block further recipe iterations, blocking the one more iteration the sulfur would need to compensate.

Combine that with high inserter hand-size directing sulfur output to one machine and one machine only per recipe iteration, and you've got the failure state on hand.

Out of curiosity: have you tried fixating the sulfur-transferring inserters' hand-size at something like 1 or 2?

that is exactly what is happening but has only come up AFTER the asteroid tech research. i havent tried limiting hand sizes yet. what I did to compensate is add a normal carbon processing near it with an inserter reading the belt and only outputting when the belt has zero carbon