(SOLVED!) Morale help, I loathe space platforms

[captainamaziiing]

SOLVED! There is a mod that does exactly what I wanted and teleports materials across planets.

EDIT II: I will not be responding to any more comments on this thread. You people are toxic.



Steam says I have some 3500 hours in Factorio. I love Factorio. It's the highest rated game I've reviewed. It's my gold standard for game development excellence.

I didn't watch any Space Age previews as I wanted to recapture the magic of my first blind Factorio playthrough all those years ago now. Started a whole new game, built a fine base on Nauvis, then it was time to head to Vulcanus, which I did.

But I got 'stuck' there. Yes, it is technically possible to hand/robot mine and grind your way off the planet from scratch, but in any practical sense, it is not feasible.

Luckily the teleporter mod works across planets. Every time I used it I thought "Can you imagine trying to do this with platforms? Fuggetaboutit."

But here's the thing. I'm enjoying Vulcanus just fine. New recipes, new ways of thinking about my base layout. Good stuff.

But I LOATHE the space platforms. I realize nobody else seems to be having the same issues with them that I do, but I the thought of doing another platform is putting me right off the game. I 'beat' Vulcanus just by bringing orange tech through my teleporter by hand. Now I finally have a silo built but I've already researched all the orange tech. I'm tech blocked until I get to the next planet.

But the only way to automate that in the future is the wretched space platforms, and frankly I have no intention of doing so. They are so unfun to me that I will be shelving the game without going to any other planets. The throughput bottleneck and resource cost to ship goods is not working for me in the least. (there is more about platforms I don't like, but that is the crux)

This has crushed my morale. I was hoping to leave a glowing review of Space Age, but right now it's a 'no'.

I'm looking for solutions. Ideally, just a way to use a teleporter to transport materials across planets. I also saw a mod that simply puts all the biomes onto a single map, I'll be checking into it next, but I'm open to any suggestions that reduce or eliminate space platforms from my game.

Thanks in advance.

[Serendipitous]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Yeah, but the scope is different.
And the animation is unique. The whole flow is unique. You don't just "go to the east with your avatar".
It's completely different flow wise.

I don't really think it's that different. The animation is the only thing that is different and sure would be nice to turn it off. What is the difference between waiting minutes to "go east" till next patch/biter nest whatever and "go planet"? Holding button on a keyboard?

And the scope really depends on what you were building in vanilla.

[Zarek]

I don't love space platforms, but i certainly don't understand why a supposed factorio veteran despises them to that extent. I also recognize my primary complaints are minor QoL stuff.

I hate that it always seems like space platform foundation is the last thing to be sent up on a construction request. If there's a way to make sure its first every time i throw a blueprint on new platform let me know. (i don't really care if im just making a clone, but if i'm wanting to play with a design improvement its a PITA)

I kind of hate that thrusters cant be horizontally flipped. Seems so counter to their changes to everything else.

I wish there was a way to more smoothly create a stationary platform on a planet that isn't nauvis. I get the orbit challenge, But everything you'd have to do to make it safe enough to last while you build it is easily usurped by the significantly cheaper answer of build it at nauvis, setup thrusters for the one time shipment, ship it to the new planet and then park it. That *IS* annoying.

Perhaps its a skill issue, but usually have to babysit platform construction even with a blueprint.

Finally, I'd probably be happier if some things could carry more capacity. 20 EM feels reasonable. 5 Foundries doesn't. 100 belts seems a hair low too.

On the flip side - i haven't stolen anyone else's design and got them working myself, they are fire and forget with a few quality buildings. Never figured out how to keep them able to keep up on ammo for constant travel without tier 3 smelters though.

[Serendipitous]

Originally posted by Zarek:

5 Foundries doesn't.

I was kinda irritated at first by this, but then again, Foundries are unreasonably effective, with like 6 of them and couple of beacons you can fill red belt full of steel. I replaced like two stacks of electric furnaces doing my steel with just 6 foundries.

[Zarek]

Originally posted by Serendipitous:

Originally posted by Zarek:

5 Foundries doesn't.

I was kinda irritated at first by this, but then again, Foundries are unreasonably effective, with like 6 of them and couple of beacons you can fill red belt full of steel. I replaced like two stacks of electric furnaces doing my steel with just 6 foundries.

I don't disagree with where you're coming from on that point

[GAMING_Alligator]

Yeah, some of the limits do seem a bit arbitrary. Like, a single rail-gun apparently weighs the same as a fusion reactor. What's up with that?

As for making ammo, quality modules and speed beacons are you friend.

[Dreepa]

Originally posted by Serendipitous:

Originally posted by Dreepa:

Yeah, but the scope is different.
And the animation is unique. The whole flow is unique. You don't just "go to the east with your avatar".
It's completely different flow wise.

I don't really think it's that different. The animation is the only thing that is different and sure would be nice to turn it off. What is the difference between waiting minutes to "go east" till next patch/biter nest whatever and "go planet"? Holding button on a keyboard?

And the scope really depends on what you were building in vanilla.

Of course.
The one is agency over your avatar just like in any game controlling the projection of your will.
The other is watching animations, doing chores with your inventory, route GUI and waiting.
How can that be the same from a psychological standpoint?
How can that be "the same experience"
You must really be a very logical thinker if you abstract both flows to "the only difference is holding a button".

Driving a car or a semi is also the same, if you abstract it enough. You basically just press the pedal and shift gears.

No, no, no. Gaming is much more than just logic abstraction. It's an experience, where you feel your actions. Where sublte and small things matter. Where there is a flow. Where there is a state of mind. Where there is a zone that lets you forget time and a zone that makes you aware of playing a game.
It's so much more than just "but it's all the same".

[GAMING_Alligator]

Am I missing something, or is the thing some people are complaining about basically that transporting stuff between planets isn't as easy as moving it a few miles across Nauvis with a steam train?

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

And imho space rockets are in a bad place in terms of that.
And I bet my a** that Wube, in testing and development, always just teleported themselves to the planets, with their console/devcheats. And that's why they didn't "feel" it.

It seems to me a lot of people are playing without using bots/logistics, and think they need their engineer physically on a planet to accomplish anything. Set up bots/logistics and do everything using the remote Map view. Stop fighting it, and just embrace it. The remote/map view is so OP that I think the mech armor and all the new fancy equipment is pointless because I really don't even use the engineer outside of setting up the initial cargo landing pad, rudimentary electric grid, and roboports when landing on a new planet for the first time.

You do not need to "teleport" to other planets, you do not need to use console/devcheats, because the remote Map view is all that plus more already.

Simple example: To expand your Nauvis base without your engineer present on the planet: have a tank with a personal roboport installed in its equipment grid. Remote view/control the tank, and request whatever items you need to build out the expansion -- bots will stock the tank with what is requested. Remote drive the tank out to wherever you want to expand, and ghost-build/blueprint what you want built. The construction bots on the tank will automatically build everything.

You do not need to physically fly your engineer back to Nauvis using a space platform, or use any cheat mods (to "teleport") to do any of this.

If people are dead-set on fighting against that (remote/map view) mechanic, then perhaps they should just play vanilla and stay on Nauvis if they prefer their engineer to hand carry everything around to manually build things. The point of the game is automation, and bots/logistics/blueprints are a huge part of this.

[Dreepa]

Originally posted by Fletch:

Originally posted by Dreepa:

And imho space rockets are in a bad place in terms of that.
And I bet my a** that Wube, in testing and development, always just teleported themselves to the planets, with their console/devcheats. And that's why they didn't "feel" it.

It seems to me a lot of people are playing without using bots/logistics, and think they need their engineer physically on a planet to accomplish anything. Set up bots/logistics and do everything using the remote Map view. Stop fighting it, and just embrace it. The remote/map view is so OP that I think the mech armor and all the new fancy equipment is pointless because I really don't even use the engineer outside of setting up the initial cargo landing pad, rudimentary electric grid, and roboports when landing on a new planet for the first time.

You do not need to "teleport" to other planets, you do not need to use console/devcheats, because the remote Map view is all that plus more already.

Simple example: To expand your Nauvis base without your engineer present on the planet: have a tank with a personal roboport installed in its equipment grid. Remote view/control the tank, and request whatever items you need to build out the expansion -- bots will stock the tank with what is requested. Remote drive the tank out to wherever you want to expand, and ghost-build/blueprint what you want built. The construction bots on the tank will automatically build everything.

You do not need to physically fly your engineer back to Nauvis using a space platform, or use any cheat mods (to "teleport") to do any of this.

If people are dead-set on fighting against that (remote/map view) mechanic, then perhaps they should just play vanilla and stay on Nauvis if they prefer their engineer to hand carry everything around to manually build things. The point of the game is automation, and bots/logistics/blueprints are a huge part of this.

I agree somewhat, but at the same time I find that if a game design promotes avatar, avatar equipment, avatar unlocks and progression and personal combat, then the game design is fighting itself, when other feature areas and concepts ask you to ignore it because it's "pointless".

If they wanted to make a game like Anno, Cities Skylines or any other top down god-builder management game, why go through the hassle of adding an avatar in the first place.

To me, this is the entire "feeling" that makes these games different. Like Satisfactory. Like Subnautica. Like Valheim.

_I_ am physically present. I matter as an engineer.
Sure, I have roboports. Sure I use logistics. Sure I SHIFT+CTRL click CTRL+C stuff all over the place on Gleba to easily use landfill. Sure, I have logistic and construction bots and roboports automated.

But at the same time, all these things don't contradict the very premise of the game: You are there. You as a entity matter. You can even die.

And the devs also acknowledge all that in their design decision for personal progression.
You start by being slow, then you get a car, then you get mechanical legs, your speed increases, the world opens up as distances become less of an awe and feeling of vastness.

What once was a feeling of "oh, that's waaaaaaaaaay over there, at the 8M iron ore patch" turns to "oh, I just quickly walk over there to fix smth".

They further have woven that design pillar into their progression by enabling free movement, where things don't block you, with the jetpack mech. Another elevation of mastering freedom of movement and gradually removing more shackles from your avatar.


It would only be conclusive to continue that philosophy with a portal.
Mind you, this is also a pure SA thing. Base factorio does not have this design dichotomy.

Roboports and remote work always coexisted fine with personal avatar gameplay. As a symbiosis.
It's only a thing with SA, where some kind of immersion approach was used to make planets feel like planets (caus from a structural perspective those other planets are nothing else than a region on Nauvis with special rules. You could do the same game like SA without planets just adding biomes to Nauvis).

In order to create this immersion and believability, new mechanics where introduced, and immersion boosting cutscenes etc.

At the cost of avatar agency.

Ofc I am not saying this is like a complete game breaker. I am just saying it wasn't the best decision in my book, and SA sacrifices too much of something that was a consistent part of Factorio in my view. The ability to be physically present and, without too much hassle, move yourself to a location.


It's a dichotomy

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Zarek:

I hate that it always seems like space platform foundation is the last thing to be sent up on a construction request. If there's a way to make sure its first every time i throw a blueprint on new platform let me know. (i don't really care if im just making a clone, but if i'm wanting to play with a design improvement its a PITA)

I kind of hate that thrusters cant be horizontally flipped. Seems so counter to their changes to everything else.

I wish there was a way to more smoothly create a stationary platform on a planet that isn't nauvis. I get the orbit challenge, But everything you'd have to do to make it safe enough to last while you build it is easily usurped by the significantly cheaper answer of build it at nauvis, setup thrusters for the one time shipment, ship it to the new planet and then park it. That *IS* annoying.

Perhaps its a skill issue, but usually have to babysit platform construction even with a blueprint.

These are all valid criticisms of space platforms -- especially the construction of them (where the foundation parts always seems to be the last thing requested). The platform should not request construction items until the foundation is in place first. Ex: I have storage tanks and thrusters at bottom edge -- the platform requests the tanks and thrusters before the foundation is even there to place the tanks/thrusters. That just seems like a bug the developers need to fix. For really large platform blueprints, you can potentially fill the entire storage area before the additional cargo expansion units are even rocketed up (much less the foundation to place the cargo expansions on).

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

I agree somewhat, but at the same time I find that if a game design promotes avatar, avatar equipment, avatar unlocks and progression and personal combat, then the game design is fighting itself, when other feature areas and concepts ask you to ignore it because it's "pointless".

If they wanted to make a game like Anno, Cities Skylines or any other top down god-builder management game, why go through the hassle of adding an avatar in the first place.

To me, this is the entire "feeling" that makes these games different. Like Satisfactory. Like Subnautica. Like Valheim.

_I_ am physically present. I matter as an engineer.
Sure, I have roboports. Sure I use logistics. Sure I SHIFT+CTRL click CTRL+C stuff all over the place on Gleba to easily use landfill. Sure, I have logistic and construction bots and roboports automated.

But at the same time, all these things don't contradict the very premise of the game: You are there. You as a entity matter. You can even die.

And the devs also acknowledge all that in their design decision for personal progression.
You start by being slow, then you get a car, then you get mechanical legs, your speed increases, the world opens up as distances become less of an awe and feeling of vastness.

What once was a feeling of "oh, that's waaaaaaaaaay over there, at the 8M iron ore patch" turns to "oh, I just quickly walk over there to fix smth".

They further have woven that design pillar into their progression by enabling free movement, where things don't block you, with the jetpack mech. Another elevation of mastering freedom of movement and gradually removing more shackles from your avatar.


It would only be conclusive to continue that philosophy with a portal.
Mind you, this is also a pure SA thing. Base factorio does not have this design dichotomy.

Roboports and remote work always coexisted fine with personal avatar gameplay. As a symbiosis.
It's only a thing with SA, where some kind of immersion approach was used to make planets feel like planets (caus from a structural perspective those other planets are nothing else than a region on Nauvis with special rules. You could do the same game like SA without planets just adding biomes to Nauvis).

In order to create this immersion and believability, new mechanics where introduced, and immersion boosting cutscenes etc.

At the cost of avatar agency.

Ofc I am not saying this is like a complete game breaker. I am just saying it wasn't the best decision in my book, and SA sacrifices too much of something that was a consistent part of Factorio in my view. The ability to be physically present and, without too much hassle, move yourself to a location.


It's a dichotomy

Tanks, Spidertrons, etc are your "avatar" extensions that allow remote piloting and construction out beyond your bot network remotely. If you ignore them, then you are purposefully limiting yourself to only the single engineer being the way to construct stuff.

And then people are using that intentionally limited playstyle to say that space platforms suck. :) The game gives you the tools, so use them.

Space platforms do not suck for the purpose they are primarily intended -- they are not intended to manually fly your engineer back and forth between planets (they CAN be used for that, but that is not their main purpose). Remotely piloted Tanks/Spidertrons are the tool for that intended use case (to remotely expand a base beyond the bot network on a planet that your avatar is not on).

[Dreepa]

Originally posted by Fletch:

Originally posted by Dreepa:

I agree somewhat, but at the same time I find that if a game design promotes avatar, avatar equipment, avatar unlocks and progression and personal combat, then the game design is fighting itself, when other feature areas and concepts ask you to ignore it because it's "pointless".

If they wanted to make a game like Anno, Cities Skylines or any other top down god-builder management game, why go through the hassle of adding an avatar in the first place.

To me, this is the entire "feeling" that makes these games different. Like Satisfactory. Like Subnautica. Like Valheim.

_I_ am physically present. I matter as an engineer.
Sure, I have roboports. Sure I use logistics. Sure I SHIFT+CTRL click CTRL+C stuff all over the place on Gleba to easily use landfill. Sure, I have logistic and construction bots and roboports automated.

But at the same time, all these things don't contradict the very premise of the game: You are there. You as a entity matter. You can even die.

And the devs also acknowledge all that in their design decision for personal progression.
You start by being slow, then you get a car, then you get mechanical legs, your speed increases, the world opens up as distances become less of an awe and feeling of vastness.

What once was a feeling of "oh, that's waaaaaaaaaay over there, at the 8M iron ore patch" turns to "oh, I just quickly walk over there to fix smth".

They further have woven that design pillar into their progression by enabling free movement, where things don't block you, with the jetpack mech. Another elevation of mastering freedom of movement and gradually removing more shackles from your avatar.


It would only be conclusive to continue that philosophy with a portal.
Mind you, this is also a pure SA thing. Base factorio does not have this design dichotomy.

Roboports and remote work always coexisted fine with personal avatar gameplay. As a symbiosis.
It's only a thing with SA, where some kind of immersion approach was used to make planets feel like planets (caus from a structural perspective those other planets are nothing else than a region on Nauvis with special rules. You could do the same game like SA without planets just adding biomes to Nauvis).

In order to create this immersion and believability, new mechanics where introduced, and immersion boosting cutscenes etc.

At the cost of avatar agency.

Ofc I am not saying this is like a complete game breaker. I am just saying it wasn't the best decision in my book, and SA sacrifices too much of something that was a consistent part of Factorio in my view. The ability to be physically present and, without too much hassle, move yourself to a location.


It's a dichotomy

Tanks, Spidertrons, etc are your "avatar" extensions that allow remote piloting and construction out beyond your bot network remotely. If you ignore them, then you are purposefully limiting yourself to only the single engineer being the way to construct stuff.

And then people are using that intentionally limited playstyle to say that space platforms suck. :) The game gives you the tools, so use them.

Space platforms do not suck for the purpose they are primarily intended -- they are not intended to manually fly your engineer back and forth between planets (they CAN be used for that, but that is not their main purpose). Remotely piloted Tanks/Spidertrons are the tool for that intended use case (to remotely expand a base beyond the bot network on a planet that your avatar is not on).

I never said space platforms suck.
I said the flow of travel is annoying and cumbersome.

Remotely controlling a tank sucks even more, the controls of that things are even more annoying than having to wait to travel.

So I exchange the friction I have with avatar travel for the friction I get by controlling a tank.
No thanks.

But it's non issue really, because the game is moddable, most issues are just theoretical in the end.

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Dreepa:

I never said space platforms suck.
I said the flow of travel is annoying and cumbersome.

You should have space platforms fully automated at some point. Not manually controlling them. Just like your trains should be fully automated and not manually driven around to deliver pickup/deliver cargo.

Remotely controlling a tank sucks even more, the controls of that things are even more annoying than having to wait to travel.

That's your incentive to upgrade to Spidertrons :) High-tier is always better than low-tier:
Cars < Tanks < Spidertrons

So I exchange the friction I have with avatar travel for the friction I get by controlling a tank.
No thanks.

But it's non issue really, because the game is moddable, most issues are just theoretical in the end.

Or just do that: use mods to customize the game however you want.

My point is that this thread is raging against space platforms when there are better alternatives for the use-case already available in the game. Its humorous to watch actually.

Instead of complaining about some game mechanic, it would be better if people just state their problem/use-case. It almost always boils down to "user-error", because they are trying to force one game mechanic to solve their actual problem, when there are other game mechanics better suited for that use-case. And then they attack the devs and people who defend the original mechanic, all the while calling this community hostile and toxic.

[Dreepa]

Ofc the plattforms are automated. This was in context of personal avatar travel.

BTW: When I get spidertrons, I am already so far into the game and have endured it all anyway.

I don't think anyone is raging against anything.
People express their feedback and impression about the game, and are completely entitled to do so.

"User-error" is not smth that should be how a game experience is judged.
Gaming is more than logic. Gaming is a leisure activity, and it includes much more than "solving a problem".
It's self expression, it's immersion, it's got tons of intrinsic motivation why ppl do what they do in their individual ways etc etc

This is not some piece of productivity application where you can talk about a "user-error".

If anything, if players unknowingly play a game (any game for that matter) "incorrectly" (which would be the "user-error" part) where they play in a way that is not intended or detracts from, and diminishes the game experience, then that is not on the user. It becomes a game design topic, and a game designer observing this would most probably (if he's any good at what he's doing) want to analyse and reflect upon the user behavior and why they did things in a way that he didn't intended.

It's a game, not a job.


It means game designers spend a lot of time thinking about onboarding, accessibility, gameflow, signs & feedback, incentives and punishments, etc etc etc

Because games are more about psychology and make belief, than they really are about rules. Rules and finding the optimal strategy and best way to play the game is part of the process. Knowing the best use for each feature and how things are used optimally is not a requirement upfront. And Factorio is a very "open" and "sandboxish" game in that regard.

So if people have a problem with space plattforms for their personal playstyle, then I think it is reasonable for them to express it.

Some things just feel annoying. Even if there is a solution.

[GAMING_Alligator]

I mean, I'm at the point of preparing a ship to fly to the edge of the system now and the only reason I fly my engineer anywhere is basically for role-playing purposes. In fact lately he's just been sat in orbit of Nauvis on the space science platform controlling everything remotely.

You just get to the stage where there's not much you can do "by hand" that you can't do just as (if not more) effectively with map view and your logistics network. Even when the avatar is physically present on a planet, it's often faster to just scroll the map around and give orders rather than doing it "in person".