So with sushi belts and quality unsatured belts

[Entropy]

How is UPS in SA? Before it, we needed to have satured belts but now we may not have most of the time.. So in some fffs i remember bot and belt optimizations but are they enough?

[knighttemplar1960]

According to dev testing in the FFFs they saw an improvement of 10-25% even in heavy robot builds from 1.1 to Space Age and the patches are still optimizing.
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-421

[Entropy]

It seems not enough, time to get 9800x3d maybe

[RiO]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

It seems not enough, time to get 9800x3d maybe

The belt logic is fine, actually. The problem with end-game Space Age is the asteroid spawns en route to the shattered planet becoming ridiculous. But the developers have been working on optimizing that and recently delivered the first of a round of performance optimizing patches for it, which has already greatly helped.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

It seems not enough, time to get 9800x3d maybe

The belt logic is fine, actually. The problem with end-game Space Age is the asteroid spawns en route to the shattered planet becoming ridiculous. But the developers have been working on optimizing that and recently delivered the first of a round of performance optimizing patches for it, which has already greatly helped.

Hmm , unsaturated belts were one the main culprits in 1.1. Currently this all game almost enforces u to have unsaturated belts when going to megabase. Hope it is fine as you say. Currently, since new meta is liquids(moltens), belts are less needed than before, thus it may actually be enough. I want to know impact of space platform stuff on ups though since all planets and space platforms are single core?

[kremlin]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by RiO:

The belt logic is fine, actually. The problem with end-game Space Age is the asteroid spawns en route to the shattered planet becoming ridiculous. But the developers have been working on optimizing that and recently delivered the first of a round of performance optimizing patches for it, which has already greatly helped.

Hmm , unsaturated belts were one the main culprits in 1.1.

Unsaturated belts have not been significant versus saturated belts since version 0.15

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176

[Spears]

Originally posted by RiO:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

It seems not enough, time to get 9800x3d maybe

The belt logic is fine, actually. The problem with end-game Space Age is the asteroid spawns en route to the shattered planet becoming ridiculous. But the developers have been working on optimizing that and recently delivered the first of a round of performance optimizing patches for it, which has already greatly helped.

Im not sure if a the X3D series would be useful here, as from my understanding factorio doesn't take full advantage of hyperthreading or multicore cpus?

[Chindraba]

The X3D series does have, however, the massive on-chip RAM cache. Memory, and memory latency, are the real UPS killers at scale. The X3D solves that issue in a unique and uniquely effective, way.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by kremlin:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Hmm , unsaturated belts were one the main culprits in 1.1.

Unsaturated belts have not been significant versus saturated belts since version 0.15

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176

No wrong. This is for underground belt and normal belt difference. Check all megabases and ups videos of pre 2.0 and u will understand( they all talk about it) Unsaturated belts will make your cpu calculate every entity on it.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Spears:

Originally posted by RiO:

The belt logic is fine, actually. The problem with end-game Space Age is the asteroid spawns en route to the shattered planet becoming ridiculous. But the developers have been working on optimizing that and recently delivered the first of a round of performance optimizing patches for it, which has already greatly helped.

Im not sure if a the X3D series would be useful here, as from my understanding factorio doesn't take full advantage of hyperthreading or multicore cpus?

Check the benchmarks and you will see. It makes 'enough' difference

[Hurkyl]

I'm pretty sure empty space is treated like an ordinary item.

Game partitions belts into blocks, and the game doesn't have to do calculations for "every entity on it" -- the game only has to bother with items that cross boundaries, or with items inserted/removed in the middle of a block.

That said their existence does need to be stored. I somewhat expect they do have optimizations for stretches of identical items, which means it requires less memory to manage the belt contents, and maybe the process of moving things in/out of a block takes less work.

[kremlin]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by kremlin:

Unsaturated belts have not been significant versus saturated belts since version 0.15

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-176

No wrong. This is for underground belt and normal belt difference. Check all megabases and ups videos of pre 2.0 and u will understand( they all talk about it) Unsaturated belts will make your cpu calculate every entity on it.

Perhaps it is them who don't understand.

[Entropy]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

I'm pretty sure empty space is treated like an ordinary item.

Game partitions belts into blocks, and the game doesn't have to do calculations for "every entity on it" -- the game only has to bother with items that cross boundaries, or with items inserted/removed in the middle of a block.

That said their existence does need to be stored. I somewhat expect they do have optimizations for stretches of identical items, which means it requires less memory to manage the belt contents, and maybe the process of moving things in/out of a block takes less work.

Memory is cheap and is rarely problem. When belt is saturated, you know their position in next tick and not insertable. So u stretch this info to belt length and u saved yourself all calculations for every belt entity. When unsaturated, u need to calculate whether it is insertable and where it will be in next tick(cuz item can come)

[Entropy]

Originally posted by kremlin:

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

No wrong. This is for underground belt and normal belt difference. Check all megabases and ups videos of pre 2.0 and u will understand( they all talk about it) Unsaturated belts will make your cpu calculate every entity on it.

Perhaps it is them who don't understand.

Okey achieve a 20k megabase with unsaturated belts in 1.1 please. U just disrespected all megabase creators.


In 1.1, Open your detailed debug window and make 3k length belt. Put an item every 2 seconds and get ups value, and then saturate it. U will see the ups impact and diff

[kremlin]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by kremlin:

Perhaps it is them who don't understand.

Okey achieve a 20k megabase with unsaturated belts in 1.1 please. U just disrespected all megabase creators.


In 1.1, Open your detailed debug window and make 3k length belt. Put an item every 2 seconds and get ups value, and then saturate it. U will see the ups impact and diff

Let's look at the real benchmarks.
I'm trying to find that 'box' website that had a bunch of Factorio benchmarks on it, but I'm not seeing it in search results. I'm under the impression that the database of benchmarks is entirely gone. So where do we get up to date benchmarks?

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by Chastity Belt Enjoyer:

Originally posted by Spears:

Im not sure if a the X3D series would be useful here, as from my understanding factorio doesn't take full advantage of hyperthreading or multicore cpus?

Check the benchmarks and you will see. It makes 'enough' difference

For those who might not know about the benchmarking site used often with Factorio it is FactorioBox[factoriobox.1au.us].

For the comparison of X3D and non-X3D AMD chips, looking at the reports for the most popular map, flame_Sla 10k - 10x1000spm Belt Module, and the AMD 7950, since it has 4 different results sets[factoriobox.1au.us], this is the comparison.

7950X3D with 2@ 32G Ram 433.9 UPS vs 7950X with 2@ 32G RAM 250.5 UPS
7950X3D with 2@ 16G Ram 408.5 UPS vs 7950X with 2@ 16G RAM 225.4 UPS

Yup, I think the X3D variant make 'enough' of a difference. With a bit of headroom to spare.