Signal based train station signals?

[Z0MBE]

I wish or wonder if you can make a mod that does this , like a mod that makes an emergent circuit symbol that tells a station what signal or item it shows to bolster train interrupt systems , similar to how a train interrupt signal works ...

It just seems like it should already be in the game.

I just want to give a station the steel signal, then when there's no signal, the train station just doesn't show anything or is nil station ..

[Galileus]

What would you want to do with it? Using a single station for multiple different cargos sounds like an unnecessarily overcomplicated mess, and that's the only situation I can think of on the top of my head. And even then? I'm pretty sure using 'item wildcard' would work.

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by Galileus:

What would you want to do with it? Using a single station for multiple different cargos sounds like an unnecessarily overcomplicated mess, and that's the only situation I can think of on the top of my head. And even then? I'm pretty sure using 'item wildcard' would work.

Just the ability to do it would be cool, and I don't think it would be entirely too complicated. It just seems like it would be more consistent or something that should already be in the game. I don't see how it would be overcomplicated mess, I mean, if you literally had one single train station or more, it could become complex in a good way, it could drastically reduce the amount of train stations in your base, this is a pretty massive amount of space that if removed, could be a good innovation.

My train system alone has at least the need for like 20 spaces for trains to drop off specific materials - if I could reduce it by 4 times, that would be a massive difference.

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Originally posted by Galileus:

What would you want to do with it? Using a single station for multiple different cargos sounds like an unnecessarily overcomplicated mess, and that's the only situation I can think of on the top of my head. And even then? I'm pretty sure using 'item wildcard' would work.

Just the ability to do it would be cool, and I don't think it would be entirely too complicated. It just seems like it would be more consistent or something that should already be in the game. I don't see how it would be overcomplicated mess, I mean, if you literally had one single train station or more, it could become complex in a good way, it could drastically reduce the amount of train stations in your base, this is a pretty massive amount of space that if removed, could be a good innovation.

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

The issue will always be through put. Using 12 bulk inserters per cargo wagon and unloading into chests is the fastest you can unload. For items of stack size 50, like ore, it will take ~12 seconds to fully unload the wagon. Also contributing to this through put problem is the time it takes the train to arrive at the station from the where ever it is (main rails, stacker, etc) and the time it takes for the previously unloaded train to clear the station for the next arrival.

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Just the ability to do it would be cool, and I don't think it would be entirely too complicated. It just seems like it would be more consistent or something that should already be in the game. I don't see how it would be overcomplicated mess, I mean, if you literally had one single train station or more, it could become complex in a good way, it could drastically reduce the amount of train stations in your base, this is a pretty massive amount of space that if removed, could be a good innovation.

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

The issue will always be through put. Using 12 bulk inserters per cargo wagon and unloading into chests is the fastest you can unload. For items of stack size 50, like ore, it will take ~12 seconds to fully unload the wagon. Also contributing to this through put problem is the time it takes the train to arrive at the station from the where ever it is (main rails, stacker, etc) and the time it takes for the previously unloaded train to clear the station for the next arrival.

That's true but not necessarily relevant

Of course, you could mod or create better throughput, and it wouldn't necessarily change anything if it was used with organic structures players create, it would be more about the emergent state for me, the fact that you could make something else or create something unique.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The issue will always be through put. Using 12 bulk inserters per cargo wagon and unloading into chests is the fastest you can unload. For items of stack size 50, like ore, it will take ~12 seconds to fully unload the wagon. Also contributing to this through put problem is the time it takes the train to arrive at the station from the where ever it is (main rails, stacker, etc) and the time it takes for the previously unloaded train to clear the station for the next arrival.

That's true but not necessarily relevant

Of course, you could mod or create better throughput, and it wouldn't necessarily change anything if it was used with organic structures players create, it would be more about the emergent state for me, the fact that you could make something else or create something unique.

You might be able to write a mod to do what you want. As a very edge case its not something the devs would do for vanilla. Its something they left for modders that want it. The devs have always been very mod friendly.

[Z0MBE]

"You might be able to write a mod to do what you want. As a very edge case its not something the devs would do for vanilla. Its something they left for modders that want it. The devs have always been very mod friendly."

I don't know why they wouldn't do it, I mean, it would be a reasonable addition I think.

"Its something they left for modders that want it." " The devs have always been very mod friendly."

I'd totally like a mod that does that, does anyone know of a mod that does that? or how you would do it in a mod? I haven't seen that anywhere.

>"As a very edge case its not something the devs would do for vanilla."

This baffles me. are inserters having a circuit condition not an edge case? couldn't you only do everything in the least unique way possible? yes, of course, but then this game wouldn't be enjoyable. Are the devs just completely wrong? or perhaps, do you just make up the supposed intimacy between yourself and them?

I think the devs should add this into the game.

[Chindraba]

I think that maybe I understand what you're asking for.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I just want to give a station the steel signal, then when there's no signal, the train station just doesn't show anything or is nil station ..

Without regard to why you want to use it, or how it would help, the short idea is that you want to be able to, somehow, rename a train stop using circuits at the stop. Without being super complicated, you're just wanting to use some specific item/fluid signal and put that in the name. So you want a station like "[item=something] Unload" or even "A station for getting [item=something] off the train", with 'something' being the signal the train stop receives on a wire.

First, I'm pretty sure one thing is absolutely correct.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

That might be involved in the train's schedule/interrupt but it's go nothing to do with the train stop's name changing. It even depends on some station existing with that item's icon in the name, and on the rest of the name, except for the icon itself, being the same, exactly. (Which ruins my former naming system totally.)

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I'd totally like a mod that does that, does anyone know of a mod that does that? or how you would do it in a mod? I haven't seen that anywhere.

I've not checked into either mod, but there are a couple which look promising for you case:

Dynamic Train Stop Naming[mods.factorio.com], seems to offer the bare bones of what you're looking for. It seems to offer nothing but the ability to rename the stop, and all complications are your problem.

Circuit Train Stop Renamer[mods.factorio.com], seems like it's got more thinking behind the how it's used. What it does might solve some problems, or at least expose them so you at least have to think about them. It might also do too much and overshoot your needs.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I don't know why they wouldn't do it, I mean, it would be a reasonable addition I think.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I think the devs should add this into the game.

WUBE's forum has a board Ideas and Suggestions[forums.factorio.com]. I'm not suggesting you post your idea there, however. Rather, I'm suggesting you read the last three announcements posted there: "I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(", "How is This Board Working? Revision #3", and "Read this before making suggestions!". They seem to have a more intimate relationship with the devs, and offer insight into how 'suggestions' end up in the game. In that vein, I'd urge you to connect with the mod creator of either mod, if it's somewhat close to your goal, and work with them to make it as good as it can be, and as popular as possible, such that it becomes a proven concept and a useful idea in the hopes that the devs agree with the idea enough to work with it. Whether I like it or not, it does seem like there might be potential there. It seems like a good second-half to the dynamic routing offered by the wildcard signal in the interrupt system.

Moving on....

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

My train system alone has at least the need for like 20 spaces for trains to drop off specific materials - if I could reduce it by 4 times, that would be a massive difference.

Initially that seemed like an absurd condition. Of course, I was thinking of it as 20 spaces in one place to feed one factory, not 20 different kinds of places in the system as a whole. However, there's the potential for a different challenge for yourself in that. Perhaps it's not possible, or maybe it is. See if you can engineer a system where stations have generic names and only open when they need something and there is also a train with that item looking for a place to deliver. I cannot, at this point, envision how that would work, but I have done some really weird things with trains and schedules in 1.1. The new features of trains, and the surface-global WiFi net of radars, just might make something possible. Something you could do in vanilla without the help of the devs or mods. Of course, for me the fun is in the puzzle, so I'm inclined to tackle "stupid" ideas anyway. Some of them even worked.

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Just the ability to do it would be cool, and I don't think it would be entirely too complicated. It just seems like it would be more consistent or something that should already be in the game. I don't see how it would be overcomplicated mess, I mean, if you literally had one single train station or more, it could become complex in a good way, it could drastically reduce the amount of train stations in your base, this is a pretty massive amount of space that if removed, could be a good innovation.

My train system alone has at least the need for like 20 spaces for trains to drop off specific materials - if I could reduce it by 4 times, that would be a massive difference.

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

If it was a loading station, it would be insanely complicated, with the need to load only a specific amount of materials, very limited ability to buffer and a mess of spaghetti.

If it was an unloading station... why do you need to dynamically name it? You can have it as "drop X" and all trains that drop this kind of material go there. And I think you could use item wildcard, too.

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by Galileus:

If it was an unloading station... why do you need to dynamically name it? You can have it as "drop X" and all trains that drop this kind of material go there. And I think you could use item wildcard, too.

Im 90% sure the item wildcard only works in train signals, but what im saying is that the train station should have a wildcard signal.

I'd need to dynamically name it because I need a range of supplies for base operations that would be cumbersome to apply in multiple train stations - whereas I could have an array of circuits that define what happens, just like how I do with foundrys, I only need one for steel, iron, iron rods, gears etc .. using circuits, so I should be able to do that with stations.

>You can have it as "drop X" and all trains that drop this kind of material go there.

I currently do that and it's useful and works, I just wish I could have an adaptive train stop, one that can use a wildcard signal etc and work and do that... Im 99% sure that doesn't work currently

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

I think that maybe I understand what you're asking for.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I just want to give a station the steel signal, then when there's no signal, the train station just doesn't show anything or is nil station ..

Without regard to why you want to use it, or how it would help, the short idea is that you want to be able to, somehow, rename a train stop using circuits at the stop. Without being super complicated, you're just wanting to use some specific item/fluid signal and put that in the name. So you want a station like "[item=something] Unload" or even "A station for getting [item=something] off the train", with 'something' being the signal the train stop receives on a wire.

First, I'm pretty sure one thing is absolutely correct.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I don't think item wildcard would work the same way, that only works in internal train logic.

That might be involved in the train's schedule/interrupt but it's go nothing to do with the train stop's name changing. It even depends on some station existing with that item's icon in the name, and on the rest of the name, except for the icon itself, being the same, exactly. (Which ruins my former naming system totally.)

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I'd totally like a mod that does that, does anyone know of a mod that does that? or how you would do it in a mod? I haven't seen that anywhere.

I've not checked into either mod, but there are a couple which look promising for you case:

Dynamic Train Stop Naming[mods.factorio.com], seems to offer the bare bones of what you're looking for. It seems to offer nothing but the ability to rename the stop, and all complications are your problem.

Circuit Train Stop Renamer[mods.factorio.com], seems like it's got more thinking behind the how it's used. What it does might solve some problems, or at least expose them so you at least have to think about them. It might also do too much and overshoot your needs.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I don't know why they wouldn't do it, I mean, it would be a reasonable addition I think.

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I think the devs should add this into the game.

WUBE's forum has a board Ideas and Suggestions[forums.factorio.com]. I'm not suggesting you post your idea there, however. Rather, I'm suggesting you read the last three announcements posted there: "I want to make suggestions, but I got links to mods!! :(", "How is This Board Working? Revision #3", and "Read this before making suggestions!". They seem to have a more intimate relationship with the devs, and offer insight into how 'suggestions' end up in the game. In that vein, I'd urge you to connect with the mod creator of either mod, if it's somewhat close to your goal, and work with them to make it as good as it can be, and as popular as possible, such that it becomes a proven concept and a useful idea in the hopes that the devs agree with the idea enough to work with it. Whether I like it or not, it does seem like there might be potential there. It seems like a good second-half to the dynamic routing offered by the wildcard signal in the interrupt system.

Moving on....

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

My train system alone has at least the need for like 20 spaces for trains to drop off specific materials - if I could reduce it by 4 times, that would be a massive difference.

Initially that seemed like an absurd condition. Of course, I was thinking of it as 20 spaces in one place to feed one factory, not 20 different kinds of places in the system as a whole. However, there's the potential for a different challenge for yourself in that. Perhaps it's not possible, or maybe it is. See if you can engineer a system where stations have generic names and only open when they need something and there is also a train with that item looking for a place to deliver. I cannot, at this point, envision how that would work, but I have done some really weird things with trains and schedules in 1.1. The new features of trains, and the surface-global WiFi net of radars, just might make something possible. Something you could do in vanilla without the help of the devs or mods. Of course, for me the fun is in the puzzle, so I'm inclined to tackle "stupid" ideas anyway. Some of them even worked.

I'll try those mods out they sound promising lol but they're new buildings/ train stops and not the original so that's a complication .. but it sounds promising ..

My current interrupt system has requester stations ping provider stations via radar, that calls trains from parking areas to the provider station - it's difficult and yeah I enjoy the puzzle I just thought that with wildcard signals they would be emergent and everywhere in the game and not just in train logic.

Yes, i'll try to follow up with this idea after experimentation.


I think I tried the dynamic naming station one and it didn't seem to work

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Im 90% sure the item wildcard only works in train signals, but what im saying is that the train station should have a wildcard signal.

But station does not have an inventory, so how would that work...?

If it comes to changing the name dynamically... how does it work with saves, how does it work with trains en-route, what happens if a train just goes to park when it changes and what if it is parked already, how does it interact with limits, do the trains finish their route when it changes? Do they count towards limits if the name changed but the train still is coming?

And all that to get another, less useful version of having a "Drop Metallics" station? Besides, I think most people prefer separate stations and not need to sort it, or work out massive buffer train systems, so that all the necessary resources can flow in at the same time and you do not need to account for "all the trains ever" with the buffer and the limits.

Don't get me wrong - I think it would be an interesting option to have, but "it should be in already" sounds like a massive overexaggeration to me. It does seem more of a mod territory.

After all, when WUBE introduced wildcards, I do not think they didn't consider adding them to stations.

[Z0MBE]

Originally posted by Galileus:

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

Im 90% sure the item wildcard only works in train signals, but what im saying is that the train station should have a wildcard signal.

But station does not have an inventory, so how would that work...?

If it comes to changing the name dynamically... how does it work with saves, how does it work with trains en-route, what happens if a train just goes to park when it changes and what if it is parked already, how does it interact with limits, do the trains finish their route when it changes? Do they count towards limits if the name changed but the train still is coming?

And all that to get another, less useful version of having a "Drop Metallics" station? Besides, I think most people prefer separate stations and not need to sort it, or work out massive buffer train systems, so that all the necessary resources can flow in at the same time and you do not need to account for "all the trains ever" with the buffer and the limits.

Don't get me wrong - I think it would be an interesting option to have, but "it should be in already" sounds like a massive overexaggeration to me. It does seem more of a mod territory.

After all, when WUBE introduced wildcards, I do not think they didn't consider adding them to stations.

I feel like you're so concerned with defeating the idea you're unwilling to conceptualize it in any meaningful sense, you're completely defensive against the premise. Wildcards were added, changing crafting recipes were added using circuits , therefore it just seems sequential that changing train names can come next.

I think you're right that there would be difficulty with what the train does next after the stop changes, but that's the point, that's still a thing with the current version and mechanics, that doesn't invalidate them so why should it invalidate this idea ?

Seems like everyone here but Chindrada is so averse to the concept like what is the deal

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Z0MBE:

I feel like you're so concerned with defeating the idea you're unwilling to conceptualize it in any meaningful sense, you're completely defensive against the premise. Wildcards were added, changing crafting recipes were added using circuits , therefore it just seems sequential that changing train names can come next.

I think you're right that there would be difficulty with what the train does next after the stop changes, but that's the point, that's still a thing with the current version and mechanics, that doesn't invalidate them so why should it invalidate this idea ?

Seems like everyone here but Chindrada is so averse to the concept like what is the deal

I am sorry to be blunt, but if your best response to a critique of your idea is "I think you are critiquing my idea", then it might not be a good idea.

I think I was pretty detailed about why the idea does not appeal to me as a main-release thing (even though I admitted it would be fun to play with as a mod!). Yes, I am critical of that, so...? Isn't this what the forums are for, to discuss? I think I was honest and thorough in my assessment, so I do not see a problem here.

As for sequentiality? That is a non-sequitur. The same argument could be used to demand 100 more planets, assembling machine tier 1946 (plenty of colours in RGB for that!) and more, more, more ores! There is no such thing as adding things just because a pre-requisite exists - there needs to be a reason for those, and WUBE was brilliant about that, too. That's why we don't get electric trains or space engine mark 2 - the few machines that do have tiers need to update over the course of the game to keep up with more and more expensive recipes, before the growth turns horizontal. Adding a station wildcard would need a reason - and I still miss the explanation as to what we could do with it that we cannot with interrupts.

[blackheart612]

Late but I feel for OP and would appreciate the feature tbh.

It seems like there's a pretty heavy opinion of it not being optimal while OP just seems to be interested in the idea regardless of it.

Probably the weirdest part about it all is the fact that all mentioned possible problems when it interacts with things is that we can already rename stations while everything is functioning anyway.
This might explain the "It just seems like it should already be in the game." because it already partially is. The framework is there. So it's just adding a circuit function of doing that automatically lmao
Well, at least mods exist!

[Z0MBE]

I had a hard time trying to find a mod that did this.. but yeah I just want to reduce the clog up of stations. I know for instance that I can do this with a forge, make steel, iron, iron gears, copper cable, copper plate, all with one forge using "set recipe" and just using an anything > 0 output anything decider - one at a time, and it works, so couldn't I do that with a train request station ? but yeah it's just meh lol ..

The end result would just be a station that can request multiple inputs, maybe inputs that aren't always needed, like ammo, walls, repair packs, and it's just a utility thing.. but idk.

The problem with the forums is the idea that the game is only playable in one linear method ...