Artillery and Tesla are Garbage, Please Change My Mind

[megamagicmonkey]

First, I'm arguably playing the game wrong. I've only recently added multiple launch pads on certain planets, but I really struggle with expansion after I have already established an effective minimum. Making factories larger than a few hundred square tiles has never been something I've seen much merit in nor do I have the mental capacity to sort something out on a massive scale. With that preface:

Artillery seems really awful. The shots are slow the range isn't that great for what I get out of it, and the fire rate is slow. I know these are all upgradeable but for much cheaper costs in both materials and science I can easily dwarf their utility. Being native to Vulcanus in particular sucks as I find them entirely worthless at combating Demolishers. Tanks work much better. Maybe this changes as Demolishers get bigger? But again I don't spread out much so I haven't fought anything larger than a small. I can totally get behind the cannons themselves being a vulcanus only production, but why the ammo too? It completely kills their already limited functionality. Couple that with non-stacking ammo and very low rocket stacking supplying multiple cannons on other planets just seems like a huge waste of time. I never used these in vanilla either, just ran around with portable lasers bringing massive amounts of destruction wherever I went, so maybe I'm missing something, but they legit seem truly, truly terrible both in terms of material use and logistic efficiency.

But I can't even begin to convince myself that Tesla Turrets/Tesla Gun have any value whatsoever. Fulgora has zero need for them locally, asteroids are immune their damage, and while lasers consume just energy, Tesla weapons consume energy AND ammo? And once again, that ammo is Fulgora sepcific? This gives it nearly all the same downsides of the artillery but with even fewer applications and more drawbacks. At least as I understand it. Seen where some people say it does decently on Gleba, but is it worth it? Especially for someone who needs a fair amount of time to even get a rocket or two up to a platform.

I'm not trying to just trash talk these things, I'm way too unfamiliar and inexperienced with them to make any real judgment calls, but looking at them makes me kinda hate 'em and not want to engage with them at all. The biggest grievance is easily planet-restricted ammo development. I'm wanting to learn though so if you can help me see the light and reveal their value, I'm very open to it.

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by megamagicmonkey:

First, I'm arguably playing the game wrong. I've only recently added multiple launch pads on certain planets, but I really struggle with expansion after I have already established an effective minimum. Making factories larger than a few hundred square tiles has never been something I've seen much merit in nor do I have the mental capacity to sort something out on a massive scale. With that preface:

Artillery seems really awful. The shots are slow the range isn't that great for what I get out of it, and the fire rate is slow. I know these are all upgradeable but for much cheaper costs in both materials and science I can easily dwarf their utility. Being native to Vulcanus in particular sucks as I find them entirely worthless at combating Demolishers. Tanks work much better. Maybe this changes as Demolishers get bigger? But again I don't spread out much so I haven't fought anything larger than a small. I can totally get behind the cannons themselves being a vulcanus only production, but why the ammo too? It completely kills their already limited functionality. Couple that with non-stacking ammo and very low rocket stacking supplying multiple cannons on other planets just seems like a huge waste of time. I never used these in vanilla either, just ran around with portable lasers bringing massive amounts of destruction wherever I went, so maybe I'm missing something, but they legit seem truly, truly terrible both in terms of material use and logistic efficiency.

But I can't even begin to convince myself that Tesla Turrets/Tesla Gun have any value whatsoever. Fulgora has zero need for them locally, asteroids are immune their damage, and while lasers consume just energy, Tesla weapons consume energy AND ammo? And once again, that ammo is Fulgora sepcific? This gives it nearly all the same downsides of the artillery but with even fewer applications and more drawbacks. At least as I understand it. Seen where some people say it does decently on Gleba, but is it worth it? Especially for someone who needs a fair amount of time to even get a rocket or two up to a platform.

I'm not trying to just trash talk these things, I'm way too unfamiliar and inexperienced with them to make any real judgment calls, but looking at them makes me kinda hate 'em and not want to engage with them at all. The biggest grievance is easily planet-restricted ammo development. I'm wanting to learn though so if you can help me see the light and reveal their value, I'm very open to it.

What on earth are you talking about? I'm making artillery guns and ammo on other planets just fine. And my tesla turrets work fine with just electricity and do not use any ammo. Maybe actually check how the things work before you start writing them off.

Also the main benefit of artillery is to eliminate newly built nests near your walls that might become a problem automatically. While you are wasting time going around with your laser turrets killing nests people who use artillery are using that time to do something productive.

[Fel]

Artillery turrets (and train wagons) are the only way to properly automate the removal of spawners (and egg rafts), especially important when enemy expansion is enabled.
It is not really meant to be used against demolishers.


Tesla turrets are great against stompers and strafers on Gleba as it stuns them on top of having several instances of damage against those multi-parts enemies, they are also decent as complement to other weapons against demolishers.
Unlike the weapon form, tesla turrets don't require ammo, just energy like the laser turrets.

At higher quality levels, the chances to fork increase quite a bit, making it a potent turret on Nauvis as well and a potential rival to flamethrower turrets against swarms (hitting 10 targets plus the chance of fork with each hit is massive against large groups).

[Khaylain]

No, I don't think I will.
If you don't see the usefulness of those, don't use them. Makes no difference to me. I always use artillery trains to help automate nest cleanup for expansion, and if I had Space Age then Tesla turrets seem like they would be great for Gleba especially.

[Fletch]

If you can progress in the game without Artillery and Tesla turrets, power to you. I try to use all tools available to me. Static Tesla turrets only need electricity to fire, only the tesla "gun", held by the engineer, requires the tesla ammo.

I like to think everything in the game has pros/cons, so I study the item and try to figure out the best way to apply it to my factory. Most recently I've been thinking about Biochambers on Nauvis, and its special skill of absorbing Nauvis' pollution -- and how I can better leverage that game mechanic.

[🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾]

Artillery is a stand-of suppression weapon, intended to maintain a clean perimeter around your factories, and they do this very well if placed cleverly. I use trains to distribute ammo, since the distances can make bots a slow method of re-supply. I use them all the time to clear spawn points. I would not even consider using them against moving targets like Demolishers, too slow as you rightly described.

As for Tesla towers, (I've not used the portable Tesla yet) they need nothing other than power, and do an excellent job if supported by lasers.

[knighttemplar1960]

The materials from Vulcanus to create artillery shells stack and can easily be shipped to Nauvis by platform where they can be assembled and then transported by artillery wagon. Factorio is an automation game You can use artillery for automated defense to stop enemy expansion. You can also use it offensively to clear out a large swath of territory quickly and then keep it clear.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2602877677
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2602877802
Send a couple remote controlled tanks out to clear a spot and build your bunker, summon ammo trains for defense and then artillery trains for attack. Once that's done send your tanks out to mine the resource patches that are now clear and keep expanding your base.

Expanding your base "the Factory must grow" is a mantra. Ore patches run out and oil wells deplete. You have to expand to take new resources and much like a bureaucracy that must expand to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy your factory must grow to meet the needs of your growing factory.

Others have answered the tesla turret question so I'll leave it at that.

[Nonotorious]

For nauvis i just put a defensive wall around the entire base and i never have to think about it ever again.
Artillery is good on gleba for clearing out nests within your spore cloud, gleba's version of pollution, the point in clearing nests is so that they don't grow and spawn attack parties constantly.
Tesla turrets slow down the large pentapods so the missiles can annihilate them, i haven't used them for much else tbh.

[malogoss]

That's a very long post to say "I still have to find out how things work".

[oyssoyss]

make a legendary artillery. their range basically always bigger than your discovered area.

[Heated Kaizen]

Having an open mind and wanting to have people change it is great! but I can definitely say that some of the value of things has to do with their use-case.

I'll answer your question with a story from my past.
There was a time where, I didn't see the usefulness of a tank. My reasoning was, "I can move around faster in a car, and if I use defender drones and a machine gun with some poison caps I can break the nests right next to me just fine, what possible use could the tank have that's really any better then this?"

It wasn't until later ^-^ in a larger scale base, and more time progression that I found that tanks firepower, and ability to move through biters with less avoidant movement patterns and more direct approach, made them very useful for clearing multiple bases of nests at a time, which is much better with trying to get rid of more issues at once.

My problem at the time was seeing how the scale could be affected, and that's often what you'll see!! Is that while you can play around an established, effective minimum. New problems and greater success come with an increase in effort and growth.

If you feel uncomfortable with the scale and the mental work required to keep up with it? I'd say that's actually a great sign. It means you may get genuine accomplishment and maybe even new problem solving skills in real life from just playing a very well made game. That's always what I enjoy doing in games, is finding ways they improve my life as I relax/invest!

However if you're looking to just chill, and the improvement angle isn't appealing. That would sadden me but also be entirely understandable, sometimes we are just looking for escapes.

- -

The other comments address the actual direct question about artillery, automated clearing, and scale will effect the usefulness and productivity of it.

( With completely imaginary numbers I explain the impact of scale. As well as low balling how slow artillery is just for added effect )
If 1 Tank can clear 30 nests in a minute, and 1 artillery setup can clear 5 in a minute
That means by the time you have 6 setups, you've already matched the 1 tank for 30 a minute.

At 18 setup, you're at 90 a minute, and would need 2 competent friends driving tanks and fighting to match the 18 artillery.

At 36, you're at 180 a minute. ( Three nests a second! even with a much slower fire rate then they actually have, you could never have cleared this fast with 1 tank )

At 100, you're at 500 a minute, 8.3 nests killed a second. At this scale and other scales, you run into a new problem, killing nests so fast that you probably aren't even firing them for a whole minute (with whatever these numbers are imagined to be, it's just an example)
Now your new problem is even trying to get the setups to the new nests to be removed fast enough!

This is how growth is, and I wish you ALL the best luck in your enjoyment and learning of that growth my friend.
:heart:

[RiO]

Originally posted by Fel:

a potential rival to flamethrower turrets against swarms

Rival? Mais non, my dear Fel.
Complement.

Tesla turrets fork and shock everything passing by into slow down, making it easier for the flamethrower's splash to hit them dead center, and keeping them there in the middle of the blaze longer for those sweet, sweet DoTs to accrue.

[Mad Gnome]

Artillery exists to keep a nice buffer zone around your base clear of enemy bases.

Teslas bounce and hit multiple targets, slowing them down, for regular lasers to finish them off.

[Chris!!]

I want to use Tesla turrets in conjunction with flamethrower turrets to stun the bugs and spitters long enough to have them coated in fire and die before they can touch my walls.

[megamagicmonkey]

Ok, lots of good answers. I swear I looked up the factorypedia multiple times on Tesla turrets and saw that they used ammo. That could be a big help then if they don't. I really appreciate all the answers so far!

[Lambas]

Originally posted by megamagicmonkey:

Ok, lots of good answers. I swear I looked up the factorypedia multiple times on Tesla turrets and saw that they used ammo. That could be a big help then if they don't. I really appreciate all the answers so far!

It is unfortunate and I daresay avoidable that the application of 'ammo category' in the factoriopedia is producing this misconception. No, the turrets do not consume ammo, only large gobs of electricity even when idle and especially when active. The tag is I think intended to indicate that the research which applies to that ammunition type will also apply to the turret.