Instalează Steam
conectare
|
limbă
简体中文 (chineză simplificată)
繁體中文 (chineză tradițională)
日本語 (japoneză)
한국어 (coreeană)
ไทย (thailandeză)
български (bulgară)
Čeština (cehă)
Dansk (daneză)
Deutsch (germană)
English (engleză)
Español - España (spaniolă - Spania)
Español - Latinoamérica (spaniolă - America Latină)
Ελληνικά (greacă)
Français (franceză)
Italiano (italiană)
Bahasa Indonesia (indoneziană)
Magyar (maghiară)
Nederlands (neerlandeză)
Norsk (norvegiană)
Polski (poloneză)
Português (portugheză - Portugalia)
Português - Brasil (portugheză - Brazilia)
Русский (rusă)
Suomi (finlandeză)
Svenska (suedeză)
Türkçe (turcă)
Tiếng Việt (vietnameză)
Українська (ucraineană)
Raportează o problemă de traducere
Reguli și ghiduri pentru discuții
Raportează această postare
i swear the very first bus i've ever seen by arumba he did just that. his style grew but in one video he setup a mall as the first things being built on the bus. belts, etc etc.
to build the infra to get the resources to the bus (belts, poles, undergrounds, splitters) that was either done in hand or as an off-shoot from the smelter. first stop on the bus was all the stuff you'd ever need to stock up in your inventory.
it's pretty neat learning howto setup a mall out of necessity, which teaches why it's needed.
if you type in
/permissions
in chat then uncheck craft. that will disallow you from hand crafting. this is useful for one of the achievements in the game only lets you craft some 111 things by hand before it fails.
this is another cool resource
check out the 100% achievement guide
https://www.speedrun.com/factorio/guides
its just where you go to fill up on supplies.
In minecraft. there was one mod for skybock, industrial revolution or something. it let you auto-organize all you had into either a cluster of chests. then there was another mod that gave you a single wifi interface (in minecraft mind you) that let you request any item you wanted long as your remote control was within range of a wifi antennae, where that would goto the computer you built and pull the stuff from your stash automatically. but that computer was end game. most of the game you had a row of chests that you labeled what each one gave you and behind the chests was a logistic set of tubes you routed everywhere.
this is how i setup that 3D game satisfactory. but there the chests were LTL containers (lol).
however in minecraft, similar to that computer that teleports you your stuff as you request it. factorio has logistic robots. which means soon as you hit robots, the mall is useless. so have to weigh, is rushing to robots better than setting up a mall. there's also another advantage of not creating a mall. you get to see more of your factory. i know the production screen is a thing, but i never use it, i'm only looking at iron/copper/circuit/power production. but it's not really a big deal, a mall is usually a bunch of belts heading towards one central area, unless you create a bus, then it's just another place you can stop on the bus to pick up stuff.
I will use mixed logistics: highly dense-complicated many-input-output products use logistic bots, and long-distance use train, and belts for constant/high-throughput.
As for shopping mall, I usually use it to make it easier to handcraft what you need, but if there are too many intermediate products (say a modded Factorio game), I might not do a shopping mall and instead set up production lines using ingots/bars as needed.
Just rushing to bots WITHOUT a mall, imo, would take a lot longer, because you'll constantly be needing materials and buildings that could be being crafted at a mall but isn't. It's better to just make a mall, and then swap the chests when you get to bots- Especially since once you get to bots, you basically need to make a mall anyway; Else the bots have nothing to bring you.
-It hides your throughput and bottlenecks since when your factory is not running the belts all look full. It is very easy to split too much of a belt and build a factory that can never have most of its assemblers actually working. This is why it is especially bad for new players. They take one belt and split it in 4 and think they have 4 belts of throughput. When they need more throughput they waste their time balancing even more to try to get the other 3 belts to help, because they look full. There's no way to get a sense of ratios and actual resource needs.
-It is hard to expand. Both adding more lanes than you planned for, but also adding more production once a branch can't be made longer due to belt throughput limit. You will be forced to break the bus and place new production off the bus, or place a new branch at the end and drag its product backwards, also breaking the point of the bus.
-It uses a lot more belts, undergrounds and splitters, all which takes more effort to place since you are not just dragging belts with the auto place feature but even have to remove belts to place the splitters and undergrounds. This is not just due to needing more for the longer distances, but also because they are all occupying the same space regardless if they are going to widely separated assembly lines.
-The cost is also a factor. Upgrading to blue belt for more throughput is very convenient, but expensive. A bus user having a lot more belts, undergrounds and splitters will wait and have to spend more effort to get the throughput increase some other way.
-Almost everyone who does a bus doesn't do it 100% because it is just too bad. You probably already know why the bus is bad because most likely you don't do 100% bus. Maybe you pull some greens off the bus because greens mostly go to blue, so no point taking the detour through the bus. Or maybe you pull copper for lds off the bus because that is such a large expansion when you need it and again no point putting those belts on the bus detour.
What is true for blues and lds are true for every item, just to a lesser degree. Bus can never compete with using the 2d plane for anything.
Having them all in the same location also helps you know where to go to get a delivery faster.
First play-through, I made all the mess in base by myself, and then later after launching a couple of rockets, I decided to try to completely rework the base and expand it to get 1K spm, and that's when I decided to look for already made BPs, since I wasn't up to snuff yet with game mechanics to build at that level.
These days, I do all stuff by myself and don't use external BPs (except for balancers, or some other tiny things) but then again after my first run I mostly played modded only, so it's hard to get BPs for pre-made builds when using any overhaul mods.
But I always have Nilaus masterclass BPs in my library, and only occasionally use some of them early game. The most useful ones are his bootstrap small starter base and the robot rush one, oh, also his tileable coal liquefaction one is brilliant too, even in modded games. That one I used extensively in the past until I designed my own.
All the rest of the BPs in my library are self made, and I often never reuse them again (I have 5 different rail track layout ones, for example... only ever used each once :P)
The only BPs in my library I reuse regularly are:
1. a Nuclear plant I made back in my second game, that I've been updating according to the different mods I ran, together with the uranium processing block that goes with it (that one at least for vanilla.)
2. a signal filter circuit I found in factorio forums (that took ages for me to understand how it works!) that I've used repeated times in different games.
3. Miner array layouts (just simplify one of the aspects I hate more, taking new ore patches.)
4. My own grid aligned city block layouts that I reuse in almost all my games since I made them.
5. a host of tiny utility BPs, like: a lamp based level indicator, a vehicle loader for the crawler, multiple lanes two-ways belt forks and merges (I did them once, and I reuse them whenever the need present itself.) A throughput indicator I borrowed from someone else's game.
6. train station layouts and control circuitry.
Actual production builds with machines and stuff, I normally remake every game, because that's the part I like from the game... designing builds, using existing BPs would defeat that.
I hate spaghetti bases... and I hate logistic bots focused builds: I see logbots as a cop out, like when you throw your arms into the air and scream "I give up." But that's my bias speaking, I guess (because designing builds and routing belts I what I like to do.)
But then again, having said that, a logistic bot based HUB (mall) is always a mainstay in all my games, it's the easiest way to make all the stuff needed in the game in one place. Specially when playing with a lot of mods that add stuff... it's almost impossible to design a "make-it-all" for all possible modded content stuff, specially when taking into account interactions/combinations.
I also resort to bots for loading construction trains mid game before getting spidertrons, and supply trains for defense walls. But I don't always use construction trains anymore: these days I use a mod called "Crawler" for mid-game construction tasks. Playing A&B with its crawler spoiled me too much, that now I use a similar type of vehicle in all my games!
I love aesthetic builds. no matter how they are done. I also like tileable builds and repeating patterns, that's what I strive to do in my games.
I personally can't think of anything atm. but then again, I learnt a lot of tricks by watching others play (in videos/streams etc.,) lot of things and tricks I wouldn't have figured out by myself only, I think.
The only thing that comes to mind is all the mind bending, and completely hideous ways I had use to make late game builds properly compress belts sometimes :/
But that's not noteworthy, I think. Just glitchy game mechanics, IMO.
Yeah, I can see that it could be annoying... one of the problems I have is that for me, the game really starts after you unlock trains/bots first, and then after T3 modules + beacons.
Train is required for the backbone of the base, robots are a must for building at scale, and modules/beacons is when you are able to finally build "real" permanent builds, before that is all temporary/to be thrown away.
But personally, I almost always play modded and I always have the mod construction drones unlocked from the start, and a host of other QoL stuff I love, like Picker Dollies and related mods, Teleporters, Jet Packs, etc. Those are mostly accesible post-blue science only.
On that note: Lately I been trying to chase the last achievements, and I designed a basic starter base that can be manually built to rush blue science and robots (it uses Nilaus robot rush BP as a part, for the last stage!) I'm getting old and are a slow builder (and I hate the early game) and with it I could reach robots in 3hs and a half hours (at least that's what it took me last attempt.) So in the end, is not that much wasted time until the game gets real :)
But still I'm leagues away of the 8hs to finish required for the achievement :/
Depends on how good your memory is. I always build belts, undergrounds and splitters plus pipes and pipe to grounds in the same area and inserters, power poles, steel chests, radars and electric miners are the next thing over. Every thing else you can find essentially by when the research for it completed. Grenades, ammo, and walls are where military science gets made and every thing that uses engines are made right next to that. Rockets and artillery shells are made by where sulfur and explosives come in and oil processing materials are made in the same area. Electric furnaces, rails, rail signals, and stations are all made by purple science, bots are made by yellow science. I can just go down the line and grab what I need if I don't want to make a mall. If you keep pipes off your bus you can use the bus as a highway to drive your car down.
If you leave 4 tiles open between banks of machines you can place roboports in there when you get them and turn your entire assembly area into a logistic mall.
Only a small number of things are polished enough for me to put into "real" blueprints. Train stuff, and one of my malls. Usually I think I'm just going to change it again, and making a blueprint of it is a waste of time.
I remember some Nilaus playthrough that did just what you're saying.
It did make things "look" more organized, and was, as noted, strictly a linear thing. The only width was how big one module needed to be to make its 'thing' at a level I was happy with. Overall, the width of the main bus was more than the factories on the side. It was not, regardless of the appearance, more organized than my normal spaghetti approach to early building.
- Non-main bus: (mini-bus? micro-bus? Any one for a chartreuse micro-bus, and whatever's in it?) I like this, as a 'when good' tool. A good type of place would be for making a few things with common parts, even if different ratios, where iron and copper can be bussed in and gears, wires, and green circuits can be mass produced early, added to the bus and then shipped down to the rest of the factories. The catch is that it's only good if the total demand for something, say iron-plate, is maxed out at 2 or 3 belts, and most things are only 1 belt.
I'm much more inclined to use what might be termed a "bus" inside a factory when I have several points needing a common thing. As an example, in one of my inserter prints I have all 7 being made in a row, with the need for gears to reach all of them and electronic circuits for almost all. So I have a "bus" of gears on the left and one of GC on the right. Just for "fun" the output also looks like a "bus" with a belt for each of the inserters heading off to the trains.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2956272359
- Mall: Important or not? Well, it's not a critical element, for sure. You can certainly launch a rocket without one, and once you have bots it's even less important. Before bots, however, it sure is a handy aid to have. Okay, sometimes I am a bit dense. Early on I kept seeing references to a mall. As in building one, or "this is a good time to make the mall", or "here's a nice place for the mall." I couldn't make any connection between what I thought a mall was and making a factory.
Well, finally I figured it out. A central place where I, as the engineer, can go to restock my inventory for building other parts of the factory. Prior to that epiphany I had the supplies scattered all over my base. More or less in random order near things which became available around the same time in the research tree. Remembering where to go to get what when I needed it was a real waste of time. That's one of the trends I don't like about a main bus - the "mall" items are mixed in with similar ingredient items rather than bunched together on their own. Once the bots show up, a mall is less important as I don't need to remember where I'm keeping the inserters and belts, the bots will find them for me. It's still handy, though, as I can get in range of the mall and all the bots have short flights and my inventory is stocked faster than if they were traveling all over the base to collect what I needed. In pre-bot game, so far, I've not made a mall I liked. The last game did have a semi-decent version within the rules I'd set for that game, for bots to restock my inventory. All the things were made remotely and trained into where I kept my command center, and the bot mall. Most of the building supplies, however, were set for loading onto construction trains rather than restocking my personal inventory. I should have made those things for both the trains and myself rather than having to ride a train through the "train mall" to get more building supplies, which I kept using up in my experiments.
Anyway, while not important to winning the game, a mall makes a difference in how well, or efficient, the engineer can do his job. Without getting into the debate of global vs local logistics networks, a bot mall makes it easy to work with a local network system as well, eliminating one reason for needing a global network.
My next, all achievement, game will have a dedicated mall, using its own small bus, and be easy for me to use, as well as easy to upgrade to a bot mall when I get bots. I think having a "proper" mall will also make me faster in doing my early levels of building. I'm naturally a Lazy Bastard, hand-crafting nearly nothing once I get automation research done. My last game, where I was only playing with ideas and not trying for any achievements, is over 1000 hours and still only has 104 hand-crafted items.
I now see a mall as a bridge between spaghetti and a bus. It's a nice tbh. Plus it allows you to have fun and play the game and figure out what you need todo more naturally, vs what I just mentioned, doing the measure thrice and cut once method.