Question About Crafting Times

[Darthclimo]

Let 's use Green Science as an example. Hovering over the Green Science beaker in the crafting menu, it takes 6 seconds to craft by hand. I build one manually and sure enough it takes 6 seconds. Now, I hover over the Green Science beaker in the Lvl 1 Assembly Machine: 6 seconds. However, this is incorrect. It takes over 10 seconds for the Assembly Machine to build one Green Science. What the F is going on here? My factory is fully powered and indeed supplied with Belts and Inserters. I can't figure this out for the life of me and it's frustrating.

[Hurkyl]

All crafters have a "crafting speed". which modifies the throughput you'd get on the recipe.

Engineer has a crafting speed of 1. So if you craft green science, every six seconds you get one of them.

Assmebling Machine 1 has a crafting speed of 0.5. So every six seconds, you only go through 0.5 crafting cycles -- i.e. it takes 12 seconds to finish a craft.

For many purposes you can ignore this phenomenon -- e.g. if all of the buildings involved have the same crafting speed, this effect will cancel out when trying to figure out ratios and stuff. But it would matter if you're trying to match things up to stuff like belt throughput, or mix and match things of different speed.

[knighttemplar1960]

In addition speed and productivity modules (and beacons) change amount and speed of output.

The green "blue print" is an update planner. You can design a lay out and then make several upgrade planners to update the design with new tech as you research it so you can keep your ratios balanced.

[End of history]

You can also hover over the building to see how many items it needs per seconds and how many it produces each second. This was added since with all crafting speeds, moduels, and different qualities just made the mental math a bit much. It's a very nice quality of life feature.

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

In addition speed and productivity modules (and beacons) change amount and speed of output.

The green "blue print" is an update planner. You can design a lay out and then make several upgrade planners to update the design with new tech as you research it so you can keep your ratios balanced.

And the one thing, so far, we are unable to do is 'upgrade' a factory by removing selective entities. Yes, the decon planner will allow removing selected classes of entities, yet it is a wholesale removal. The upgrade planner allows converting inserters to fast inserters and the decon planner allows removing all burner inserters. Neither one allows converting just a few of the inserters to fast inserters or removing 5 of the 14 burner inserters. Both cases come down to basically a click-per-item process which is as easy to do manually as with the planner in hand, and subject to user error.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

In addition speed and productivity modules (and beacons) change amount and speed of output.

The green "blue print" is an update planner. You can design a lay out and then make several upgrade planners to update the design with new tech as you research it so you can keep your ratios balanced.

And the one thing, so far, we are unable to do is 'upgrade' a factory by removing selective entities. Yes, the decon planner will allow removing selected classes of entities, yet it is a wholesale removal. The upgrade planner allows converting inserters to fast inserters and the decon planner allows removing all burner inserters. Neither one allows converting just a few of the inserters to fast inserters or removing 5 of the 14 burner inserters. Both cases come down to basically a click-per-item process which is as easy to do manually as with the planner in hand, and subject to user error.

For you perhaps. Hand placing and removing is a problem for me. I actually do use filtered decon planners in concert with upgrade planners for subfactories that are meant to be permanent.

[Darthclimo]

Originally posted by End of history:

You can also hover over the building to see how many items it needs per seconds and how many it produces each second. This was added since with all crafting speeds, moduels, and different qualities just made the mental math a bit much. It's a very nice quality of life feature.

Ahhhh, so are you saying that the for the items that it needs, those seconds are added to the equation?

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

All crafters have a "crafting speed". which modifies the throughput you'd get on the recipe.

Engineer has a crafting speed of 1. So if you craft green science, every six seconds you get one of them.

Assmebling Machine 1 has a crafting speed of 0.5. So every six seconds, you only go through 0.5 crafting cycles -- i.e. it takes 12 seconds to finish a craft.

For many purposes you can ignore this phenomenon -- e.g. if all of the buildings involved have the same crafting speed, this effect will cancel out when trying to figure out ratios and stuff. But it would matter if you're trying to match things up to stuff like belt throughput, or mix and match things of different speed.

Oh ♥♥♥♥, this makes perfect sense. Can't believe I hadn't figured this out after hundreds of hours of game time.

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by Darthclimo:

Originally posted by End of history:

You can also hover over the building to see how many items it needs per seconds and how many it produces each second. This was added since with all crafting speeds, moduels, and different qualities just made the mental math a bit much. It's a very nice quality of life feature.

Ahhhh, so are you saying that the for the items that it needs, those seconds are added to the equation?

If I understand your thinking, no. Those numbers are the reverse of the time in the 'recipe'.

The red science has a time of 5 sec. The level 1 assembler has a speed of 0.5,so it takes 10 seconds. The tooltip information will show, on that assembler, the inputs of 0.1/s copper plates and 0.1/s gears for 0.1/s red science. So, in 1 sec it is making 0.1 science, and takes 10 sec to make one.

The recipe is how many seconds for one craft. The tooltip is how many crafts per second. Neither is added to the other, they are different ways of showing the same information.

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by Chindraba:

And the one thing, so far, we are unable to do is 'upgrade' a factory by removing selective entities. Yes, the decon planner will allow removing selected classes of entities, yet it is a wholesale removal. The upgrade planner allows converting inserters to fast inserters and the decon planner allows removing all burner inserters. Neither one allows converting just a few of the inserters to fast inserters or removing 5 of the 14 burner inserters. Both cases come down to basically a click-per-item process which is as easy to do manually as with the planner in hand, and subject to user error.

For you perhaps. Hand placing and removing is a problem for me. I actually do use filtered decon planners in concert with upgrade planners for subfactories that are meant to be permanent.

Please, then, enlighten me. I have a common case in nearly every early build. I make one wire machine feed green circuit machine. I make a group of 8 pairs. Initially both machines are ASM-1 and all inserters are yellow. Once I have the chance I change the wire machines to ASM-2 and the 2 yellow inserters feeding them to a single blue.

Using the upgrade planner I have to "target" each of the wire machines carefully or the GC also gets updated. To 'upgrade' the inserters I have to first delete one of each pair of yellow with the decon planner and then upgrade the remaining one with the upgrade planner. Targeting each inserter is not exactly an easy process, yet anything I design which can be done with dragging ends up being better to just decon the whole thing and place a new print.

My targeting is only slightly better than yours, so please tell me how to make the decon planner only get half of the yellow inserters or how to make the upgrade planner only upgrade the wire ASM-1s and ignore the GC ASM-1s.

If this request doesn't make sense, you can always read, again, that to which you replied.

[Evilsod]

What are you even trying to say? Obviously the upgrade planner has no way of differentiating between an inserter you want to upgrade and one you want to remove. It's an UPGRADE planner, the clue is in the name. It upgrades entities.
Stop confusing the functionality of it for newer players because you want it to somehow smartly understand what you need ><

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

What are you even trying to say? Obviously the upgrade planner has no way of differentiating between an inserter you want to upgrade and one you want to remove. It's an UPGRADE planner, the clue is in the name. It upgrades entities.
Stop confusing the functionality of it for newer players because you want it to somehow smartly understand what you need ><

He's saying that "I need to remove one yellow inserter and upgrade the yellow inserter next to it" is not easily solved by "use filtered decon planners and upgrade planners".

The thing you say is obvious is part of the very point Chindraba is making.

[GAMING_Alligator]

Hover over the actual assembly machine itself. That will tell you the amount of the items it will produce per second after various modifiers have been applied

[GAMING_Alligator]

Originally posted by End of history:

You can also hover over the building to see how many items it needs per seconds and how many it produces each second. This was added since with all crafting speeds, moduels, and different qualities just made the mental math a bit much. It's a very nice quality of life feature.

Having become so reliant on this, I actually find it hard to believe it wasn't there before 2.0.

[puschit]

Originally posted by Darthclimo:

Oh ♥♥♥♥, this makes perfect sense. Can't believe I hadn't figured this out after hundreds of hours of game time.

I'd like to add that assemblers, like everything else, works slower if it doesn't have sufficient electricity.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

He's saying that "I need to remove one yellow inserter and upgrade the yellow inserter next to it" is not easily solved by "use filtered decon planners and upgrade planners".

The thing you say is obvious is part of the very point Chindraba is making.

Huh? Could you miss the point a little more?

[kremlin]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

Please, then, enlighten me. I have a common case in nearly every early build. I make one wire machine feed green circuit machine. I make a group of 8 pairs. Initially both machines are ASM-1 and all inserters are yellow. Once I have the chance I change the wire machines to ASM-2 and the 2 yellow inserters feeding them to a single blue.

I would wonder if the second yellow inserter is actually necessary. do you really need it before you would be upgrading to a blue inserter? if you're using the correct ratio of three wire assemblers to two circuit assemblers.