am i wrong or storage chest >>>>>>>>>>>>> passive provide chest?

[Pay Child Suport]

i mean, what can storage chest can do that passive provider chest can't? example scenario:

let's say a miner has run out of things to mine and you want logistics to return said miner to storage. as long as there's a filter in storage chest, the robots will return that miner exactly there: most likely where the mall made the miner. passive provider cannot do that. of course storage chest also acts as a provider

am i missing something here?

[Chindraba]

Since bots will never place anything in a passive provider you can always know what is there, and if you set any controls on it with circuits, exactly how much can be there. You can also use one passive provider to hold multiple things, and know what's there because you put them there - either by design with inserters or in person with the engineer.

Storage chests, without a filter, can be filled up with anything random the bots want to get rid of. If you do set a filter, then you are limited to only that thing in the chest, and need one for each item you want to store. There is also a quirk of storage chest and ♥♥♥ selection which can be useful or mess up your planning depending on when/how it happens. Anything in a storage chest will act like a second filter. Set the filter on a storage chest to wood and then place a gear in the chest. Bots will now happily place gears in that chest along with the wood.

The real advantage comes from using both in a planned manner. You can have the passive providers at the end of a production line and control what, and how much, is in them. Unless the production line is short on supplies you will always have the guaranteed amount in the passive providers. You then use the storage chests as temporary storage from deconstruction, or trash from you own and spidertron trash slots. The 'returns' get placed in the yellow ones and don't affect the supply in the red ones. When you need more, for a new construction project or for filling some requests in blue/green chests and personal inventory, the yellow ones are picked from first and the red are only used when there is no 'extra' left.

If the end of the production line is yellow, it has the same level of priority for pickup as the trash, which could be anywhere. The bots will pickup at the closest one with what they need. You could end up using the 'new' stuff first and get more and more stored in other yellow chests while making new stuff when not needed. Using both means you'll only make new stuff if all the extra is used up first.

Individually compared the red seems like a lesser version of the yellow. Used in planning, however, they can serve different roles and keep things more organized and give you better control.

[malogoss]

Bots give higher priority to emptying storage chests than emptying passive providers. That difference alone can justify using both types of chests, to influence bots' behavior.

You could also have 3 assemblers producing 3 different items that all go into the same chest, via inserters. If it's a storage chest, you are limited to a single filter. If that filter is set to 1 of the 3 items, you could run into a situation where many of that item are dumped into the chest by bots. To a point where there's no room left for the other 2 items to be produced and stored. If you use no filter, then it's only worse, the bots will store any trash in that chest. (Edit: and if you set the storage chest filter, for example, to "deconstruct planner" to guarantee bots will never put anything in this chest, then you might as well have used a passive provider to begin with, no filter trick needed.)

Don't worry. Play enough and use chests enough, you'll find cases where you'll be happy both chests exist.

[Khaylain]

I never use passive providers, only filtered storage chests.
So yeah, from my viewpoint you're right. I rarely use requester chests and buffer chests, and almost never active provider chests.

[Pay Child Suport]

in the case of a mall, if I set a green/red circuit in an inserter and the storage chest then that should filter how much should the mall only make. any more would be considered a surplus.

but yeah, that sounded like more work than needed.

[Chindraba]

I've done quite a few variations, and it seems that each one has its own minor quirks, which can be known before I build it. Yet, they are all simple to make. I have, as yet, not found the "one" version i like best, and I'll keep trying variations as I go. One of my recent, and successful (because not all are) experiments was to have the mall placing compatible things in common passive providers. For example, 1 chest might be for ASM-1, ASM-2 and ASM-3. Circuit wires, no combinators, would limit how many of each was in the chest. In some 'central' location near the mall I had a grid of filtered storage chests - all filtered by print to prevent early errors. If it wasn't a mall item it had no provider chest.

The active provider chest is one I almost exclusively use with a building/deconstruction train setup. The personal logistics trash slots, and the same in the spidertron, eliminate the need for an active provider at all. If a train picks up stuff from a build site, rocks, wood and coal for new or old buildings from an upgrade or mine decon then I'd use an active provider for unloading the train. If I'm using spidertrons for the construction I don't even need active providers at all.

Other than for ♥♥♥-based production I've found no useful patterns for using the requester chests and none at all for the buffer chests. I think I might, eventually, find a good way to use them with the interplanetary logistics of SA, but that remains to be seen.

[Pay Child Suport]

there's one useful thing I find in requester chest. if there's one item in the mall that is too stuck, too cornered and you cannot belt it out anymore or the entire mall will collapse, then use requester to "send" the cornered contents to a free area and continue the build from there.

pretty expensive in terms of power i can imagine.

[Chindraba]

Not sure what the power, or even UPS, hit was for it, but I did build a no-belt mall.

Requester chests and passive providers everywhere! Fun to watch the bots scurry around, and the freedom to build whatever wherever is interesting. Somehow it don't seem very practical for a full base model, however.

[knighttemplar1960]

Each type logistic chest has specific functions (and hierarchy) and how you combine them is where the power is.

Active provider chest can not accept items from the logistic network, only manually and from inserter. It has the highest priority. Logistic bots will always move items from it before any other logistic chest. If you see items sitting in an active provider chest you know instantly that you don't have enough logistic storage because there is no place for the bots to put the materials.

Storage chests can receive or deliver items to the logistic network and have the next highest priority for delivering items (the requester chest has the next highest priority for receiving items) an unfiltered storage chest can accept any item. A filtered chest will only accept the item that the filter is set for and (as Chindraba points out) any items scheduled for the chest before the filter was set or an item that you place in it manually.

Requester chests have the next highest priority. They can only receive items from the logistic network and can't supply items to the logistic network. Items can only be removed manually or by inserter. You can set requests for up to 4 different items and specific numbers of those items (caveat: setting requests that exceed the capacity of the chest "can" mess up your logistics. it can result in logistic bots hovering over the chest with items waiting for space).

Buffer chests have the next highest priority. They can both provide and receive items from the logistic network. You can set requests for up to 4 items just like requester chests but requests from requester chests will be filled before requests from buffer chests.

Passive provider chests can't receive items from the logistic network, they can only supply items to the logistic network and they have the lowest priority. Bots will only take items from passive providers if there are none of that type item in any active provider, storage, or buffer chests.

You can mix and match chests based on both hierarchy and location to keep your machines supplied smoothly.

Most planets you'll find you only need 2 or 3 different type chest but on Fulgora you may find all five useful.

[Chindraba]

Diposting pertama kali oleh knighttemplar1960:

Each type logistic chest has specific functions (and hierarchy) and how you combine them is where the power is.

Active provider chest can not accept items from the logistic network, only manually and from inserter. It has the highest priority. Logistic bots will always move items from it before any other logistic chest. If you see items sitting in an active provider chest you know instantly that you don't have enough logistic storage because there is no place for the bots to put the materials.

Storage chests can receive or deliver items to the logistic network and have the next highest priority for delivering items (the requester chest has the next highest priority for receiving items) an unfiltered storage chest can accept any item. A filtered chest will only accept the item that the filter is set for and (as Chindraba points out) any items scheduled for the chest before the filter was set or an item that you place in it manually.

Requester chests have the next highest priority. They can only receive items from the logistic network and can't supply items to the logistic network. Items can only be removed manually or by inserter. You can set requests for up to 4 different items and specific numbers of those items (caveat: setting requests that exceed the capacity of the chest "can" mess up your logistics. it can result in logistic bots hovering over the chest with items waiting for space).

Buffer chests have the next highest priority. They can both provide and receive items from the logistic network. You can set requests for up to 4 items just like requester chests but requests from requester chests will be filled before requests from buffer chests.

Passive provider chests can't receive items from the logistic network, they can only supply items to the logistic network and they have the lowest priority. Bots will only take items from passive providers if there are none of that type item in any active provider, storage, or buffer chests.

You can mix and match chests based on both hierarchy and location to keep your machines supplied smoothly.

Most planets you'll find you only need 2 or 3 different type chest but on Fulgora you may find all five useful.

Reasonable summary. With exceptions.

Requester and buffer chests can have up to 1000 requests set in 1.1. With the addition of logistic groups in 2.0 I've no clue how high that number might go, but it is most assuredly not limited to 4 items. From a practical point, of course, more than 48 seems bad - there's only 48 slots and each item type needs its own slot.

The buffer chest is weird in the priority setup. A ♥♥♥ won't pick from a buffer chest, normally, to fill a demand from a requester chest. Each requester chest does have the ability to override that in the GUI. Aside from using the override option, logistic bots only pull from buffers to supply personal (including spidertron, etc.) requests. Con-bots, however, have free access to the buffer chests, and that's their primary purpose - moving material closer to the point of need by logi-bots so the con-bots travel less. Like a bucket brigade. The buffer chests are, normally, removed from the priority list when logi-bots are trying to fill a requester chest's requests.

The last piece worth correcting is for con-bots. They use priority based on distance. The closest legal source for what they need will be used, no matter what the type of chest is. If the closes belt piece is in a red box that's used even if there's a purple box 2 tiles further away. Oddly, for con-bots removing stuff when there are 'equal priority' chests available to drop into they pick the oldest. first built, one on the list of equals. That's how you can get a con-♥♥♥ traveling half-way across the base to drop off a single piece of spare wood.

[Evilsod]

Hmm, been thiuking I should start using active provider chests for my filtered quality outputs on Vulcanus.

Although it probably wouldn't matter... the problem is still currently that I have nowhere near the production necessary to use up all the uncommon cables I produce, which sometimes clogs the machines.

[königplatzen]

One problem is for sure, when you forget to set the filter and accidentally collect all kinds of stuff
And It can also be done with buffer chests, which requests all the items in question (more than one filter), but only fills up a small amount via wired inserter.

You should be aware of the prio.
storage gets emptied first and filled last.

Storage chests also don't actively request things, only when you want to dump something, it gets filled

When you want to give the bots some stuff, you should place it in a red or purple chest. (you can also use characters trash slots, while you are in the loginetwork and even contruction bots take stuff from there, but only if needed for construction). A storage chest would get filled with other crap over time.

Anyway, each chest type has it's place for certain use cases.

[ChillCore]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Evilsod:

Hmm, been thiuking I should start using active provider chests for my filtered quality outputs on Vulcanus.

Although it probably wouldn't matter... the problem is still currently that I have nowhere near the production necessary to use up all the uncommon cables I produce, which sometimes clogs the machines.

the machines are not clogged .... just waiting for you to get going ....

[Marosh]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Pay Child Suport:

i mean, what can storage chest can do that passive provider chest can't? example scenario:

let's say a miner has run out of things to mine and you want logistics to return said miner to storage. as long as there's a filter in storage chest, the robots will return that miner exactly there: most likely where the mall made the miner. passive provider cannot do that. of course storage chest also acts as a provider

am i missing something here?

The hassle that comes with it. Your scenario only works, if the storage chest has enough space or else they put it somewhere else. For a lot of stuff that works fine. For stuff in high quantity need it doesn't work that good. Thumb of rule: If you have something in quantity higher than one chest, you might overproduce over and over and over again.

Imagine this:
You have a chest full of rails (4.8k). Now you build a new factory and you need 3k rails. While you lay down the 3k rails, your assembler will produce 3k rails again. Technically your base has now 7.8k rails (4.8k in the chest, 3k laid down). So far, so good.

Next day, an old part of your factory becomes obsolete and you deconstruct it. There where 2k rails laid down. Where do they go? The chest next to your assembler is full with new rails. So you need a new chest with a filter or an unfiltered storage chest (lets call it long term storage or LST).

Again next day, you build another new part and need 1k rails. Where do you pull 1k rails from? From the LST or from the storage chest next to the assembler? If the bots grab it from the LST then it is fine. You had them anyways. If they grab it from the assembler chest, your assembler will start producing new rails while the leftover rails are sitting in the LST untouched.

You have no control over what is used first. Freshly produced stuff or leftover stuff. Worst case scenario, you only pull from the new stuff and never from the old stuff, increasing the "junk" in your base.

A passive provider chest puts a priority in place. IF there is leftover stuff in your LST, then this will be used first. The stuff in your provider chest is only used, if there is no leftover stuff. Or in other words, it keeps a minimal stock in your base of something.

Not a big deal in small scales, but actually a headache once your base becomes quite large and a chest of something is a drop in the ocean. There are also some tricks with logics and so on and you can completly ignore passive provider chests but why do workarounds, if placing down a passive provider chest next to assembler does the same.

[SciFiGuy]

filtered storage chests? eww

[Khaylain]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Marosh:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Pay Child Suport:

i mean, what can storage chest can do that passive provider chest can't? example scenario:

let's say a miner has run out of things to mine and you want logistics to return said miner to storage. as long as there's a filter in storage chest, the robots will return that miner exactly there: most likely where the mall made the miner. passive provider cannot do that. of course storage chest also acts as a provider

am i missing something here?

The hassle that comes with it. Your scenario only works, if the storage chest has enough space or else they put it somewhere else. For a lot of stuff that works fine. For stuff in high quantity need it doesn't work that good. Thumb of rule: If you have something in quantity higher than one chest, you might overproduce over and over and over again.

Imagine this:
You have a chest full of rails (4.8k). Now you build a new factory and you need 3k rails. While you lay down the 3k rails, your assembler will produce 3k rails again. Technically your base has now 7.8k rails (4.8k in the chest, 3k laid down). So far, so good.

Next day, an old part of your factory becomes obsolete and you deconstruct it. There where 2k rails laid down. Where do they go? The chest next to your assembler is full with new rails. So you need a new chest with a filter or an unfiltered storage chest (lets call it long term storage or LST).

Again next day, you build another new part and need 1k rails. Where do you pull 1k rails from? From the LST or from the storage chest next to the assembler? If the bots grab it from the LST then it is fine. You had them anyways. If they grab it from the assembler chest, your assembler will start producing new rails while the leftover rails are sitting in the LST untouched.

You have no control over what is used first. Freshly produced stuff or leftover stuff. Worst case scenario, you only pull from the new stuff and never from the old stuff, increasing the "junk" in your base.

A passive provider chest puts a priority in place. IF there is leftover stuff in your LST, then this will be used first. The stuff in your provider chest is only used, if there is no leftover stuff. Or in other words, it keeps a minimal stock in your base of something.

Not a big deal in small scales, but actually a headache once your base becomes quite large and a chest of something is a drop in the ocean. There are also some tricks with logics and so on and you can completly ignore passive provider chests but why do workarounds, if placing down a passive provider chest next to assembler does the same.

I mean, that's why you use the circuit network to limit how much an inserter will put into each filtered logistics chest. That allows that same chest to be used to put things back. If you're deconstructing so much that you're overflowing the chest you use as your construction ♥♥♥ mall then the problem is probably more with the planning than any inherent problem with the solution of having filtered logistics chests with limited inserters for things in your mall.
A passive provider chest is less flexible than a filtered logistics chest, since bots can't put anything back in there.

Using the circuit networks is a massive help if you actually want to keep a minimal amount of items actually created.