Is the fact that crude oil becomes obsolete intended?

[Slayrix]

Something I found out and I don't think this was intended, or maybe it was idk but I don't see why it would be intended is eventually crude oil can become obsolete. Once you get coal liquefaction not a single drop of crude oil is needed because oil cracking exists and so with heavy oil you can produce a huge amount of every other oil as needed. Why would this be at thing? I mean I love it because one less basic resource I need to train in but I still find it curious.

[Warlord]

It's a nice alternative. To me, crude oil is damningly scare compared to all the other resources. It seems like either the spawn settings for oil are at 25% or less of the level it ought to be compared to other ores, or they expect you to tap dozens of fields and rely on their infinite production (even if it's reduced).

For large-scale oil projects (100 refineries or more) I end up going all in on Coal Liquefaction. Coal is stupid common, and it's a nice challenge to have to maintain enough miners on coal patches as I do iron and copper.

But Adv. Oil Processing is still pretty good, if your end goal is petroleum. It's much faster to produce that with fewer machines than with coal liquefaction. And a train carrying a few liquid wagons can be emptied in seconds, vs nearly a minute to get all the coal.

There's pros and cons to each.

[Jupiter3927]

It's more of an alternative than a replacement.
Using coal gives more heavy oil while using oil and water gives more of that purple gas used everywhere.
If anything, using coal is a higher infrastructure and power cost but no crude oil input.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

[knighttemplar1960]

I tend to process both in the same area. I need coal for explosives and plastic anyway so the trains that bring it in ship the excess to coal liquefaction. Since I have to bring in Iron plate to make sulfuric acid and batteries I make my grenades for the military science packs in the refinery area too.

[Fel]

Once you grow to a certain scale, you can't really do without advanced oil processing because of the sheer amount of petroleum gas you need on top of the light oil (required for rocket fuel both as solid fuel and as light oil).

Coal liquefaction is great when/where you need a lot of heavy oil, like robot or blue belt production lines but it's not all that great when you need a lot of petroleum gas and light oil.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by Fel:

Once you grow to a certain scale, you can't really do without advanced oil processing because of the sheer amount of petroleum gas you need on top of the light oil (required for rocket fuel both as solid fuel and as light oil).

Coal liquefaction is great when/where you need a lot of heavy oil, like robot or blue belt production lines but it's not all that great when you need a lot of petroleum gas and light oil.

I wouldn't call my base a mega base, but it produces almost everything at a pretty fast rate including white potions and yet all I use is coal liquefaction. I mean yeah my oil production area is huge because of the fact but I don't see space/power really that important since space is infinite and resources are not so infinite( I mean technically they are infinite but you know what I mean.)

[astrosha]

Basic Oil Processing : 0 Heavy Oil, 0 Light Oil, 45 Petroleum Gas, every 5 seconds
Advanced Oil Processing : 25 HO, 45 LO, 55 PG
Coal Liquifaction : 65 HO (after factoring out the 25 to prime the next cycle). 20 LOP, 10 PG

As someone else stated, if you need HO (for the Lube) then CL is the way to go. Otherwise, you get a lot more LO and PG from AOP, especially if you are cracking everything down to PG you get a lot more from AOP than you do from CL.

CL has its uses, don't get me wrong; but it does not render AOP obsolete. BOP, however ,is obsolete the moment you get AOP.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by Jupiter3927:

It's more of an alternative than a replacement.
Using coal gives more heavy oil while using oil and water gives more of that purple gas used everywhere.
If anything, using coal is a higher infrastructure and power cost but no crude oil input.
There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods.

Yeah I guess you are right, I just see coal liquefaction as having more advantages than advanced oil processing tho. I don't worry too much about space/power since it is infinite and not hard to acquire more of.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by astrosha:

Basic Oil Processing : 0 Heavy Oil, 0 Light Oil, 45 Petroleum Gas, every 5 seconds
Advanced Oil Processing : 25 HO, 45 LO, 55 PG
Coal Liquifaction : 65 HO (after factoring out the 25 to prime the next cycle). 20 LOP, 10 PG

As someone else stated, if you need HO (for the Lube) then CL is the way to go. Otherwise, you get a lot more LO and PG from AOP, especially if you are cracking everything down to PG you get a lot more from AOP than you do from CL.

CL has its uses, don't get me wrong; but it does not render AOP obsolete. BOP, however ,is obsolete the moment you get AOP.

My thing is that yeah my oil production facility might be massive compared to if you use Advanced oil processing. But I just feel that power and space are way easier to acquire than more oil so in that regard it makes coal liquefaction better to me. If oil cracking didn't exist tho then that would be another story. but coal is everywhere unlike oil and coal liquefaction barely takes any coal anyways.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by Warlord:

It's a nice alternative. To me, crude oil is damningly scare compared to all the other resources. It seems like either the spawn settings for oil are at 25% or less of the level it ought to be compared to other ores, or they expect you to tap dozens of fields and rely on their infinite production (even if it's reduced).

For large-scale oil projects (100 refineries or more) I end up going all in on Coal Liquefaction. Coal is stupid common, and it's a nice challenge to have to maintain enough miners on coal patches as I do iron and copper.

But Adv. Oil Processing is still pretty good, if your end goal is petroleum. It's much faster to produce that with fewer machines than with coal liquefaction. And a train carrying a few liquid wagons can be emptied in seconds, vs nearly a minute to get all the coal.

There's pros and cons to each.

Yeah there are pros and cons to each but I feel like the pros outweigh the cons for coal liquefaction. Advanced oil processing takes of course oil which is scarce, isn't infinite, and barely makes heavy oil, which I will admit heavy oil isn't all that useful, but because you can crack heavy oil into every other oil I think that makes it the best oil because it is the most diverse. With coal liquefaction, yes it does take more space and more power, but space and power is infinite.

[Fel]

In case you didn't know, the resource deposits become much more interesting as you get further away from spawn.
This means that a couple minutes worth of time in a train in one direction will be enough to get you some fairly ridiculous deposits, including oil.

Once you get to that point, oil is no longer "rare" or "sparse" and you can sustain pretty serious production with a couple deposits for quite a while since even when they reach their lowest rate they will still produce quite a bit due to them having a much higher starting point.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by Fel:

In case you didn't know, the resource deposits become much more interesting as you get further away from spawn.
This means that a couple minutes worth of time in a train in one direction will be enough to get you some fairly ridiculous deposits, including oil.

Once you get to that point, oil is no longer "rare" or "sparse" and you can sustain pretty serious production with a couple deposits for quite a while since even when they reach their lowest rate they will still produce quite a bit due to them having a much higher starting point.

Oh I actually didn't know this.

[astrosha]

Originally posted by Slayrix:

Advanced oil processing takes of course oil which is scarce, isn't infinite,

Uh .. oil IS infinite. It depletes to, per Pumpjack, 2 oil/sec OR 20% of the initial oil/sec, whichever is larger. A Pumpjack put onto an 8 oil/sec well will drop to 2 oil/sec. A Pumpjack put onto a 40 oil/sec well will drop down to 8 oil/sec.

They won't go any lower. If you take an oil field, add up the amount per pumpjack, and divide by 5, you'll have a good approximation (barring any tiny wells) of the lowest full-throttle output that the overall field can produce.

[Slayrix]

Originally posted by astrosha:

Originally posted by Slayrix:

Advanced oil processing takes of course oil which is scarce, isn't infinite,

Uh .. oil IS infinite. It depletes to, per Pumpjack, 2 oil/sec OR 20% of the initial oil/sec, whichever is larger. A Pumpjack put onto an 8 oil/sec well will drop to 2 oil/sec. A Pumpjack put onto a 40 oil/sec well will drop down to 8 oil/sec.

They won't go any lower. If you take an oil field, add up the amount per pumpjack, and divide by 5, you'll have a good approximation (barring any tiny wells) of the lowest full-throttle output that the overall field can produce.

Ok oil is infinite in a sense but not really, it just gets worse and worse until it isn't worth it to mine it any more.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Slayrix:

Originally posted by astrosha:

Uh .. oil IS infinite. It depletes to, per Pumpjack, 2 oil/sec OR 20% of the initial oil/sec, whichever is larger. A Pumpjack put onto an 8 oil/sec well will drop to 2 oil/sec. A Pumpjack put onto a 40 oil/sec well will drop down to 8 oil/sec.

They won't go any lower. If you take an oil field, add up the amount per pumpjack, and divide by 5, you'll have a good approximation (barring any tiny wells) of the lowest full-throttle output that the overall field can produce.

Ok oil is infinite in a sense but not really, it just gets worse and worse until it isn't worth it to mine it any more.

No, its always worth it. It never runs out. It just reduces to minimum output. You can get more oil out of a depleted well by using speed beacons and productivity modules.

[AlexMBrennan]

Ok oil is infinite in a sense but not really, it just gets worse and worse until it isn't worth it to mine it any more.

But the same is true for coal...