Is space exploration worth it?

[Jagdtiger]

So i got started with this modpack a few hours ago, but im not so sure it's worth playing anymore. It seems to fall for the same trap that krastorio did: that being adding a bunch of artificial "difficulty" by making every recipe have a million unnecessary intermediate components (single cylinder engines, etc) and randomly diversifying the resources needed on the main bus/supply line (green taking stone or wood for some reason). I hated how krastorio did this, but this mod looks much more promising later on. Does it get more interesting later on, or is it more of the same? Or maybe my complaints are sourced from my incompetency

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by kremlin:

In the case of AAI, Robot Attrition, and Space Exploration, we're talking about mods that were written by the same author and designed to be used together in concert. That's why Space Exploration depends on them, because it is designed to have those changes incorporated into the game.

Yet, simultaneously, I can't bring myself to play Space Exploration modpack.


Like the OP, I feel that the author of Space Exploration went a bit too far in adding more complexities and steps. The Space Exploration modpack has a real middle-to-end game that starts once you move into outer space and organize multiple outposts on different worlds.

If there were a significant change I could suggest to Space Exploration's Author, it would make the phase between pre-burner to space launch shorter to emphasize the exploration aspect of space, instead of insisting on weird stuff like forcing drone attrition. Technically I can work around it by forcing the drones to travel only short distances or mod out the dependency.


Contrast this to subscribing to the entirety of both Bob and Angels mods (two Authors with different visions, no less), where you have multiple tiers of continuous progression without making it too tedious. You can toggle individual mod if you turn out not to like something and those B&A modpacks have plenty of mod settings to configure.

Multiple other modpacks, which can be mixed and matched as desired and modified to the user's wants, hold more appealing gameplay to me than just Space Exploration by itself and its dependency.

[shadain597]

OP, based on your comments regarding Krastorio 2, I really doubt that you will like Space Exploration. IMO, those complaints apply to SE far more than they apply to K2; the latter feels more polished and balanced, and if you think those recipe chains are complicated or don't make sense just wait until you see the different space sciences in SE--especially bio and its feedback loops. Or how each space science needs a new ore type that can't be found on the starting planet and each of those needs like 4 different processing steps to make it usable. Or how pretty much every tech you get from space science research can only be built in space: guns, ammo, solar panels, etc.

Oh, as an aside: if you are worried about the start settings, most of the playthrough's starting options only affect the starting planet. Definitely resources and stuff like peaceful mode. Not sure about stuff like pollution settings.

[Bromstine]

Originally posted by marcelaaguayoolavarria:

factorio but the way we wanted:

Who is "we"?

[Bromstine]

Short answer: No.

I've trying to get into it again, but the longer I play the less I like it.

Meteor strikes, robot attrition can't be turned off. Biters can be turned off in vanilla. Hopefully he doesn't get too big a voice in the DLC (but my hopes are low, considering at least two other sore thumbs in the Wube team)… his vision is very different from vanilla

(Old players will remember the days when you couldn't finish vanilla without biters, thanks to Alien Artefacts…)

[BossmanSlim]

I've tried space exploration a couple times, never completed it, but here's my take on it.

The key thing that SE emphasizes is logistics over copy paste spam. Moving stuff from point A to B will be the bottleneck on almost all of the SE game, not having to spam the same mining outpost over and over.

Pros:
- It will force you to learn how to use logic circuits to control your stuff. I see this as a good thing.
- You get rockets earlier, so not that long to get into space
- Lots of cool tech to research
- General concept of exploring the universe

Negatives:
- The mod developer hates bots, so bot attrition exists and getting to bots can be a chore. I don't mind belts, but space belts being only built in space is kind of stupid and creates a bottleneck issue that is pointless.
- To quote the mod developer, "The current version of the tech tree does not represent the final intended tech tree. The current tech tree acts like a scaffold so that new content can be built around it. For example, getting access to material science pack 4 doesn’t currently unlock anything special unless you already have other high level science packs, in the final version this won’t be the case. The areas around the T3 and T4 sciences can’t be fleshed out immediately because they will rely on new planets in different solar systems and the planet-specific mechanics have not been developed yet." This means the tech tree can be very grindy at times and the whole tech tree needs a reevaluation to smooth out the difficulty curve.
- There are some random elements in the game that don't typically fit well into the Factorios general concept (meteors, bot attritions, etc.)
- It a very much more complex undertaking than the base game

How to work around some of these negatives using mod settings.
- Turn biters off, this only effects the starting planet so you don't have to fight biters on your home world. They will still spawn on other planets
- Bump up the resources as this will allow you more margin before you have to go into space. Getting off the starting world is like less than 10% of the game, so it doesn't matter than much. Again, this only applies to the starting planet.
- Robot attrition = make sure all repair crashed robots is enabled. Adjust the robot attrition factor in the mod settings. This will mainly effect the starting planet, but also contribute on other planets.
- Coronal Mass Ejection = frequency can be adjusted in the mod settings
- Meteors = fairly sure this can be adjusted in the mod settings

After tweaking the mod a bit, my biggest issue with it is the tech tree grind and generally messiness of it. The mod is pretty good until you get the the various 4 x 4 sciences after the initial space sciences.

[Eternal]

Originally posted by Jagdtiger:

So i got started with this modpack a few hours ago, but im not so sure it's worth playing anymore. It seems to fall for the same trap that krastorio did: that being adding a bunch of artificial "difficulty" by making every recipe have a million unnecessary intermediate components (single cylinder engines, etc) and randomly diversifying the resources needed on the main bus/supply line (green taking stone or wood for some reason). I hated how krastorio did this, but this mod looks much more promising later on. Does it get more interesting later on, or is it more of the same? Or maybe my complaints are sourced from my incompetency

same here, did already 5-6 tries... longest i got is that blue cryonite or how is called, when i have to build there the whole sharade to get rocket capsules and stuff to be able to launch from there etc...

best enjoyable way to play it is cheat an infinite mall, and focus on prod builds, but still those rockets bore me to death... i made a creative mode save and i can use all the late game stuff , its becoming enjoyable... but at that point i prefer DSP...

[Jagdtiger]

Because people keep necroing this i might as well say what happened. SE was absolutely not worth it and after about 10 more hours of mind numbing boredom i swapped to a different mod pack, Bob's angels, and am now several hundred hours into this new and engaging factorio experience, though unfortunately i haven't been able to play for a couple months. I appreciate the advice on the mod and am glad i steered clear in the end

[RiO]

Originally posted by BossmanSlim:

The key thing that SE emphasizes is logistics over copy paste spam. Moving stuff from point A to B will be the bottleneck on almost all of the SE game, not having to spam the same mining outpost over and over.

Pros:
- It will force you to learn how to use logic circuits to control your stuff. I see this as a good thing.

It's actually just a pure con. What it boils down to is making the mod impossible to play for those that don't understand circuit logic or are put off by it; and for those that do understand circuit logic and like to tinker with it, it means they'll settle on designing re-usable circuitry with configurable products for shipping and will finally copy&paste that along with their outposts, which will still be largely copy&paste-d from component blueprints.

Then there's also super-silly stuff like some of the circuitry you're 'supposed to' design to balance arco-spheres. That particular puzzle actually does have sound algorithms-based solutions to do it properly. But Factorio's circuitry doesn't have any of the higher-tier operator abstractions that'd make it a realistic choice to attempt to build those.

The whole thing with SE's use of circuitry and where its mod author wants to take it, leaves a very sour taste of feature gap.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by RiO:

Then there's also super-silly stuff like some of the circuitry you're 'supposed to' design to balance arco-spheres. That particular puzzle actually does have sound algorithms-based solutions to do it properly. But Factorio's circuitry doesn't have any of the higher-tier operator abstractions that'd make it a realistic choice to attempt to build those.

I haven't played SE, but is this actually true or a case of personal incredulity?

I know that when trying to optimize code you need to get down to basics and in many cases you can and that makes your code run "zillions" of times faster. In factorio basics is all you have, but that doesn't mean you can't run complex algorithms, you may just have to not try to translate the algorithm literally.

[BossmanSlim]

Originally posted by Hedning:

I haven't played SE, but is this actually true or a case of personal incredulity?

I know that when trying to optimize code you need to get down to basics and in many cases you can and that makes your code run "zillions" of times faster. In factorio basics is all you have, but that doesn't mean you can't run complex algorithms, you may just have to not try to translate the algorithm literally.

The complexity of the logic can be as simple or complex as the player wants it to be. The player can choose to manually perform the functions, but if the player wants to fully automate logistics, dipping ones toe into logic circuits will be needed.