Quality Questions

[Iron]

at first i thought, quality items are cool. But then after i realize , i need to make a separate production for each quality types. is this intended? or im missing something?

[Overeagerdragon]

Quality is based on chance too if you use modules... so instead of building dedicated lines you can also split off the output lines...

The more resources of x-quality you use; the better the chances for the output to become x-quality too and modules can further increase this chance.

Dedicated lines will give you the best bet ofc.

[Fletch]

I'm tip-toeing into quality. Currently I have normal tier-1 quality modules in all my electric miners and electric furnaces for copper/iron. I have a chest full of "uncommon" and "rare" plates saved up now. Easy way to filter is using a splitter on the output, and direct "normal" quality plates to the main factory, and all the rest (which is everything with a quality attribute) is direct to storage boxes.

My plan is to direct these "quality" plates into a dedicated subfactory to make higher quality items, starting with the quality-modules themselves. Red circuits need plastic bars, so before I can go for the dedicated subfactory, I need to add quality mods to my chemical factories (and my coal miners) to produce the uncommon/rare plastic bars needed to guarantee production of high quality red circuits. I can already guarantee production of high quality green circuits with my chests full of high quality iron/copper plates.

Anyhow, once I have belts of the uncommon/rare (and in the future, higher quality) raw ingredients flowing into the "quality" subfactory, then I'll be at the place you are at: figuring out the best way to split the different quality items to guarantee the production of high quality "anythings" I want.

FWIW: all the "normal" quality plates are directed into the main factory that produces all the normal stuff (majority of which is science) and my "mall" items. Over time, as electric miners and smelters get upgraded with higher quality (and higher tier) "quality modules", then the odds of higher quality plates goes up. I hope to get to the point of producing "legendary" plates at a high rate just from the miners and smelters (likely outfitted with Legendary Tier-3 quality mods) -- and from that, I can make legendary anything. That's the plan anyhow.

I haven't even tried to launch off to another planet yet :)

[Khaylain]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Quality is based on chance too if you use modules... so instead of building dedicated lines you can also split off the output lines...

The more resources of x-quality you use; the better the chances for the output to become x-quality too and modules can further increase this chance.

Dedicated lines will give you the best bet ofc.

I heard they changed it so you can't mix qualities in a recipe. You have to use all the same quality in the recipe. Have I heard wrong?

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

I heard they changed it so you can't mix qualities in a recipe. You have to use all the same quality in the recipe. Have I heard wrong?

I dunno the answer to that yet, but even if that is allowed, I'm not ever going to do it. I want to guarantee a certain minimum level of quality on the output of my assembler buildings. I would assume (if it is allowed) that mixing a bunch of different levels of quality as input into an assembler building will not guarantee the minimum quality of the output (or you are guaranteeing the lowest quality of whatever the lowest quality input is).

For example: a Rare Red Circuit, is guaranteed when the inputs are rare iron/copper/plastic. If you throw an "uncommon" plastic bar in there instead, I would think the odds of getting just an "uncommon" Red Circuit goes way up, even if the copper/iron inputs are "rare" quality <-- ultimately wasting the "rare" copper/iron by using the lower-quality (uncommon) plastic.

[Murderous_mofo]

Every component of the thing you are building has to be the same quality.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Fletch:

For example: a Rare Red Circuit, is guaranteed when the inputs are rare iron/copper/plastic. If you throw an "uncommon" plastic bar in there instead, I would think the odds of getting just an "uncommon" Red Circuit goes way up,

It treats all ingredients as if they are the lowest quality among the inputs. So rare green circut+copper wire but uncommon plastic gives you exactly the same distribution of red circuits as you would get if all the inputs were uncommon.

At least, that's how it used to work, according to the FFFs introducing it. I haven't fiddled with the system to see if the release version still allows you to mix items of different qualities.

[Iron]

Currently after testing, i cant mix any quality- they all have to be the same. why cant factory make it simple and let me just use them all :/

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Iron:

Currently after testing, i cant mix any quality- they all have to be the same. why cant factory make it simple and let me just use them all :/

The two obvious options have potential drawbacks:

• People who put quality modules in a factory not really set up to properly use quality products risk having quality mismatches jamming their logistics
  
• Misclicks or slight mistakes in your logistics can lead to erasure of your quality products, possibly depleting rare high quality items or wiping out stockpiles of quality items at industrial scales

I imagine they decided that the drawbacks to the more flexible option are sufficiently catastrophic in comparison to the drawbacks of the limited option that they decided to go with the limited one.

Allowing some way to force accept downgrading quality could be a third option, which maybe you could propose on the official Factorio forums. Although... it's possible that the decision to make this restriction simplified implementation and UI issues or increased performance, so there might be other reasons today why they don't do it.

[Marmarmar34]

Ngl, the quality items mechanic is more of a headache than it's worth. I'll stick to modules to tweak my throughput.

[Hurkyl]

There are various ways to approach it. I'm sure people will settle on the ways they like best. Or inherit someone else's preferences, I suppose.

I've mostly bothered with quality modules in finished products (e.g. making quality quality/prod modules). I've only used them for intermediates in a more limited scope, mainly intended for things I'd want to 'upgrade' down the road -- e.g. putting quality in red/blue chips and stockpiling the higher quality things that come out so I can turn rare prod 1 modules into rare+ prod 2 modules.

I think a lot of people plan to just use recycler/assembler loops to keep disassembling/reassembling items until they reach the desired quality level based on a design that was featured in the FFFs introducing quality. (spoiler tag just in case you are going into the game blind and weren't reading the FFFs)

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Marmarmar34:

Ngl, the quality items mechanic is more of a headache than it's worth. I'll stick to modules to tweak my throughput.

It is definitely more complicated, but I don't think it is overly complicated. Instead of have a single factory producing everything, you need "mini subfactories" that specialize in producing specific items of a specific quality (if you go the route I'm taking to guarantee high yield production of high quality items).

The easier alternative is to just put quality modules in the assembly buildings that produce the final end product: you'll eventually get a higher quality final product simply due to the odds that assembly building has.

For example: an Assembly building that just produces Inserters (ie: that feed into Green Science production and produces thousands of inserters just from the sheer volume of green science needed). Load that inserter assembly building up with quality modules and you'll start getting uncommon/rare inserters just from chance over time -- even though all ingredients feeding into that assembly building are all just the normal/common quality.

Originally posted by Iron:

Currently after testing, i cant mix any quality- they all have to be the same. why cant factory make it simple and let me just use them all :/

Thanks for confirming. It makes sense to me as I wouldn't want to "waste" a rare green circuit, mixed with "uncommon" plastic bar, to create a sub-par "uncommon" red circuit.

So for me: it makes sense to have a mini-subfactory producing "uncommon" quality items. Another mini-subfactory producing "rare" quality items. If my "uncommon" subfactory generates (through chance) a "rare" item -- just have bots providing that rare intermediary item over to the sub-factory that specializes in "rare" items. As you unlock higher tiers of quality (Epic being next), then you'll need a sub-factory specializing in producing those Epic items (and bots sending any random Epic intermediaries over to the Epic sub-factory). Another alternative is not use quality mods in the sub-factories themselves, and instead us productivity modules so you get "free rare" extra items from rare sub-factory (instead of quality mods that will give low chance of an Epic item).

There are so many ways to approach quality, and I'm finding it is actually quite enjoyable -- exceeding my expectations that I had before the DLC came out.

[Strategic Sage]

Originally posted by Marmarmar34:

Ngl, the quality items mechanic is more of a headache than it's worth. I'll stick to modules to tweak my throughput.

It can be, depending on your goals. For people who want to be able to make hyper-efficient builds, including but not limited to so-called 'megabasing', it is invaluable. Or for people who enjoy the challenge of the logistics of it just because. Space platforms can definitely benefit from some of it due to the inherently limited space.

None of it is essential, it's just a 'you can get better stuff if you're willing to do the work' thing.

[Chuck]

From what I can tell, sort of. Before you get recycling, your best bet for quality is to have quality modules in your intermediates production (like circuits) and then sort out the quality stuff from the non-quality stuff, use the quality stuff for what you want, then send the non-quality stuff to the rest of the factory. Thats what im doing now. I havent gotten off the planet yet but im just about to, right now just deciding if i want to go to fulgora or vulcanus. This kind of quality stuff management is most useful for things youre already making alot of. I use it for ammo production, youll get enough ammo that you can use it personally or send it to a space platform. That and green and red circuits, the things you need to make lvl 1 quality modules. Getting quality quality modules definitely helps.

Once you get recycling, you can make a loop to roll for a specific quality (or the highest quality you can get) where you recycle low quality stuff and send the materials back to the beginning of production to reroll for higher qualities. You still need to decide what you want to spend the quality components on, but now you can get a more usable amount of quality components. I think this is the most useful work you can do with quality. Generally high quality stuff is sort of specialized and something you need to actively decide when and where to use.

That being said, if you want to mass produce quality stuff like normal stuff, you would want to make a new production area for quality stuff. Like if i wanted to make a spot to only make a bunch of legendary gun turrets, I would probably bring in all the raw materials, have a refining/recycling loop to grind down sub-par stuff, then send the raw materials back to the beginning of the production loop. I dont really think its practical for 99% of factories to have alot of stuff in your factory be high quality anyway. regular stuff works just fine. Quality is mostly useful for personal equipment, space platforms, one off stuff and if youre really insane and want to make gigantic and ridiculously efficient megafactories.

Thats just my take on quality. Im still working on figuring out the specifics.

[Hurkyl]

IMO, probably the best 'early'-game place for quality modules is in your prod 1 module assemblers. This is:

• Something you already want to produce a lot of -- you're making them for Production Science and you probably should scatter a few dozen(s) of them around your factory to make it more resource efficient anyways
  
• When you roll a higher quality result, you get a (small) concrete boost to your factory's efficiency by putting it someplace significant, like a Lab.
  
• You can't use prod modules in this assembler anyways, since it's making a finished product

And then if you go with the "quality for the intermediates" that gives you a path for the guaranteed production of higher quality prod 2 modules.

(although if you aren't planning on quality intermediates, your quality prod 1 modules do go semi-obsolete when you get the prod 2 module research)

[Overeagerdragon]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

Quality is based on chance too if you use modules... so instead of building dedicated lines you can also split off the output lines...

The more resources of x-quality you use; the better the chances for the output to become x-quality too and modules can further increase this chance.

Dedicated lines will give you the best bet ofc.

I heard they changed it so you can't mix qualities in a recipe. You have to use all the same quality in the recipe. Have I heard wrong?

If you focus on quality (say rare quality power poles) then yes; you ALSO have to put it rare materials.... HOWEVER, the non-quality recipe will still accept the quality materials too (as last in line though) and will still increase the chance to get higher quality products at the tradeoff of a MASSIVELY reduced chance (I think it's 0.2% chance to get 2 quality up and 20% for 1 quality rate up) but this can be increased with modules again....

That's why I commented that dedicated assemblers IS best but if you just want "some" quality offshoot you can make due with the normal recipes