Do I understand new train system right?

[IceExplosive]

Hi, quick question, which the new train system, do I get it right, that interruptions allow for routing based on cargo, but let's say I have way too many copper mines -> what prevents all trains stocking up copper without a place to drop them?

LTN allows fine tuning that if there is station requesting 10k copper it will send a train just for 10k of copper, this is still seems impossible in upcoming update.

[Vertex]

There are no depots in interrupt system. If train goes to copper mine, it wont exit copper mine, until copper is needed (unless you didnt put any train stop train limits).

Current system is
Train goes to Item input station, gets item there, and then gets interrupted and sended to destination station based on what cargo it has.
If it doesnt get interrupted (no copper is needed) then it wont leave input station.

LTN is still more powerfull though, but interrupts are just easier to set up and understand so ill be using those

Additionally you can reread those FFFS:

Train Interrupts FFF [factorio.com]
Generic Train Interrupts FFF [factorio.com]

Some things since then might've improved, it was a long time ago

[jagholin]

All I can say is that the new train system doesn't provide a complete solution, it provides some building blocks with interrupts, station train limits and priorities, as well as circuits which are (hopefully) enough to design a solution for your case.

The use case for interrupts is to provide a way to deal with exceptional situations like running low on fuel( by going to a refueling station). I think there is an interrupt for getting into "no path" state as well(you could instruct the train to get to some waiting station instead of stopping in the middle of the tracks). Designing a dynamic ore distribution with interrupts is stretching the capabilities a bit, but I think it should be possible

[Fel]

The goal was never to make LTN useless but to give more tools to handle trains to cover a lot more cases.

It was the same when they added train limits, it allowed many people to do a train network based on supply and demand with relative ease.
For a lot of people, it was a good enough solution, and for those that wanted all of the features that LTN offered it changed little.

At the end of the day, LTN remains as a powerful train network mod with a lot of features but also one that requires a better understanding of circuit network to take full advantage of as well as quite overwhelming for most people.

[IceExplosive]

Ah ok thank you.
I read those FFF today and they mentioned depot system:
"So we just added a special interrupt condition called "Destination full", which allows us to make an interrupt to send a train to a depot if all the item inputs are occupied, so it doesn't block the current station."

So my line of thinking was that f.e. trains gets full cargo at copper mine, then goes to smelting site, but it drops off only lets say 10%. Then it would return to Depot and while on the way back, second train might jump on the same think -> go to mine, full load, drop just small portion of cargo.

And both will ended up inside Depot with cargo almost full of copper, while factory would be waiting for other resources.
Which just sounds like such a common problem that I must be missing something. But I guess better to wait for LTN update for SpaceAge to be sure.

[jagholin]

Originally posted by IceExplosive:

Ah ok thank you.
I read those FFF today and they mentioned depot system:
"So we just added a special interrupt condition called "Destination full", which allows us to make an interrupt to send a train to a depot if all the item inputs are occupied, so it doesn't block the current station."

So my line of thinking was that f.e. trains gets full cargo at copper mine, then goes to smelting site, but it drops off only lets say 10%. Then it would return to Depot and while on the way back, second train might jump on the same think -> go to mine, full load, drop just small portion of cargo.

And both will ended up inside Depot with cargo almost full of copper, while factory would be waiting for other resources.
Which just sounds like such a common problem that I must be missing something. But I guess better to wait for LTN update for SpaceAge to be sure.

Why would the train leave after dropping off only 10% of the cargo, I mean what's the point of that? Is there any reason not to use the wait condition "empty cargo" on the unloading station?

[IceExplosive]

Originally posted by jagholin:

Why would the train leave after dropping off only 10% of the cargo, I mean what's the point of that? Is there any reason not to use the wait condition "empty cargo" on the unloading station?

Thats the part I was missing! :-D I should really refresh my knowledge.

So the worst case scenario then becomes that trains with cargo will wait to unload for a long time - which can be mitigated by disabling a station until it drops to a low amount and thus can soon accept even a full cargo train or limit of cargo capacity at loading station.

And the only problem remains multi-item drop station - as station is either disabled or enabled and would accept items from all interruption types.

Thank you very much.

[Esxhaton]

Originally posted by jagholin:

Originally posted by IceExplosive:

Ah ok thank you.
I read those FFF today and they mentioned depot system:
"So we just added a special interrupt condition called "Destination full", which allows us to make an interrupt to send a train to a depot if all the item inputs are occupied, so it doesn't block the current station."

So my line of thinking was that f.e. trains gets full cargo at copper mine, then goes to smelting site, but it drops off only lets say 10%. Then it would return to Depot and while on the way back, second train might jump on the same think -> go to mine, full load, drop just small portion of cargo.

And both will ended up inside Depot with cargo almost full of copper, while factory would be waiting for other resources.
Which just sounds like such a common problem that I must be missing something. But I guess better to wait for LTN update for SpaceAge to be sure.

Why would the train leave after dropping off only 10% of the cargo, I mean what's the point of that? Is there any reason not to use the wait condition "empty cargo" on the unloading station?

It is useful when your train transports multiple items. In this case it is possible that at the destination one of the items is consumed slowly and the others being delivered faster. If the train would have to wait for its cargo to be empty, the destination is at high risk to be starved of the resources consumed faster, and in the worst case deadlocking the train as it is even possible that the cargo would never be completely emptied as the lack of some items may not allow the consumption of the item still in the cargo and slowly being unloaded as it is consumed by the destination.

[Maltsi]

Originally posted by jagholin:

Originally posted by IceExplosive:

Ah ok thank you.
I read those FFF today and they mentioned depot system:
"So we just added a special interrupt condition called "Destination full", which allows us to make an interrupt to send a train to a depot if all the item inputs are occupied, so it doesn't block the current station."

So my line of thinking was that f.e. trains gets full cargo at copper mine, then goes to smelting site, but it drops off only lets say 10%. Then it would return to Depot and while on the way back, second train might jump on the same think -> go to mine, full load, drop just small portion of cargo.

And both will ended up inside Depot with cargo almost full of copper, while factory would be waiting for other resources.
Which just sounds like such a common problem that I must be missing something. But I guess better to wait for LTN update for SpaceAge to be sure.

Why would the train leave after dropping off only 10% of the cargo, I mean what's the point of that? Is there any reason not to use the wait condition "empty cargo" on the unloading station?

If you have station that requires very little materials, the train would be sitting there and be useless 90% of the time, you could use it for other stations too. But then again i never request trains if there is no room to empty their load fully

[IceExplosive]

Originally posted by Esxhaton:

It is useful when your train transports multiple items. In this case it is possible that at the destination one of the items is consumed slowly and the others being delivered faster. If the train would have to wait for its cargo to be empty, the destination is at high risk to be starved of the resources consumed faster, and in the worst case deadlocking the train as it is even possible that the cargo would never be completely emptied as the lack of some items may not allow the consumption of the item still in the cargo and slowly being unloaded as it is consumed by the destination.

Yes this! last game I went really into a Grid factory with lots of stations often with 3 or 4 item types. So this is still a complex case not intended to be solved by vanilla.
Thank you all for helping me sort my thoughts.

[knighttemplar1960]

There have always been lots of vanillla solutions to most of these issues once station limits were added.

For fuel instead of having a centralized fueling station that gets clogged with traffic add a fuel station to common destinations. As an example add a fuel station to your smelter set up. When ore trains drop off they fill all the way up on fuel. When plate trains arrive they fill all the way up on fuel while they are being loaded. Fuel is used very slowly. You may be able to use a single fuel train to make all your fuel deliveries over a huge base.

For stations that have multiple products like a refinery you can build multiple (un)loading stations. One for each product.

For places that have 1 station that handles multiple types of cargo, you can locks slots to products on each wagon and balance your rations that way using filter inserters for unloading. If your resource use isn't balanced you can use the circuit network to request a multi-product train any time one of the products drops below a certain level. The train will arrive with all the products and it can top off every thing it carries. I do this for defense outposts. One train carries ammuntion, replacement walls, robots, and repair packs, and oil for flame throwers.

For stations that can be clogged by trains you can build standby stations where full (or empty) trains can wait off the main rails. You can then use the trains themselves as product buffers.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3247721216

For the rest you can use several different conditions at the train stations depending on your needs and design. You can use cargo full/empty, item count, time passed, and inactivity as loading/unloading and waiting conditions.

The new bits just give more flexibility to your station designs and how you build your rail networks.