Is Space-age worth it? especally with spoilers?

[TD〢Pilka]

I have no problem with people getting access before me. The only Its the amount of spoilers i have gotten through YouTube. I am the guy that avoids FFF and have played Space-exploration, But i do like to watch YouTube on complicated mechanics or just ideas for my build. Because of my history, my feed is filled with space-age content with spoilers and thumbnails.

In it self its not a issue. But combined with a NDA removal week before makes it unavoidable to get spoilers and makes it feel like they are tease you. If they removed the NDA 2 days before or just told the content-creators ECT to hold off the spoilers. Happy days

I actually like when content-creators ECT can get early access or beta-test. They can test the game properly so i can get a good product. They can prepare to release there content so i can get help or ideas if i need or want to. Its just those spoilers that ruined it for me

I am 50/50 on getting space age. The little i saw and understood was that...

The space platforms does not transport materiel from point a-b and just pick up stuff from space? correct me if i am wrong, but does that mean i need to set up everything from scratch? In space-exploration you had more of a outpost mind-sett were you later send up resorses to space, but it does not seem to exist here. This also would ♥♥♥♥ up the logistical thinking.

Factorio space-age does not seem hard when it comes to logistics, So what type of spin are they adding? The only thing i can think of that makes the game harder is rest/side products so you need to balance/prioritise your systems. But i have a hard time believing that because the DLC need to be more friendly to "newer players".

and OFC the spoilers. I am looking in to starting a K2SE playthrough after the space-age release. If Space-age enhance the K2SE experience with EX quality then i would probably buy it otherwise we will see...

What do you think?

[Zaflis]

The space platforms does not transport materiel from point a-b and just pick up stuff from space? correct me if i am wrong, but does that mean i need to set up everything from scratch?

TLDR: Stuff moves from planet -> platform -> planet.
(Mods could change game mechanics fundamentally.)

On planets you use rocket silos to send items to space platforms.

Then you can move platforms around almost the same way as trains do, even their schedule UI looks almost identical. Just that they don't have cargo wagons but logistics automation that remind of requester chests. Each programmed request is planet-specific, but you can create multiple and separate them in numerous categories that can be shared between platforms.

Finally when platform reach destination it follows those orders and drops cargo pods to planet's landing bay. If it doesn't have a landing bay like a planet you enter for first time, they will scatter to the spawning area. But you can send almost anything from Nauvis to your first planet of choice, including full roboport network, nuclear power setup and its fuel, everything to build a rocket silo and rocket parts, etc.

You can do it all with 1 space platform but you can have as many as you like and they are fully reusable, if they survive the journey.

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Avloren:

<snip>

Nice analysis! I think it makes sense to start the quality filtering right at the beginning, on the raw Ore itself. Feed any quality (not normal) ore, directly to a sub-factory whose sole job is only to produce the quality modules (and at higher qualities as you upgrade the miners).

When the raw ore ingredients start with non-normal quality, it helps (guarantees) everything else down the line -- so an "Epic Ore" is guaranteed to generate an "Epic Plate" in a smelter, etc (and that epic plate should be used to make an epic quality module). As you produce the first tier-1 quality modules (ie: "uncommon" quality), then put those directly in the electric miners to increase the odds of farming more of the higher quality ore --> which goes straight to producing even higher quality quality-modules. Keep doing that until your miners are loaded up with Legendary Tier-3 Quality Modules -- at which point your are farming a decent percentage of "Legendary Ore" that can be used to produce "Legendary Anythings".

Four more days...

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by Fletch:

Originally posted by Avloren:

<snip>

Nice analysis! I think it makes sense to start the quality filtering right at the beginning, on the raw Ore itself. Feed any quality (not normal) ore, directly to a sub-factory whose sole job is only to produce the quality modules (and at higher qualities as you upgrade the miners).

When the raw ore ingredients start with non-normal quality, it helps (guarantees) everything else down the line -- so an "Epic Ore" is guaranteed to generate an "Epic Plate" in a smelter, etc (and that epic plate should be used to make an epic quality module). As you produce the first tier-1 quality modules (ie: "uncommon" quality), then put those directly in the electric miners to increase the odds of farming more of the higher quality ore --> which goes straight to producing even higher quality quality-modules. Keep doing that until your miners are loaded up with Legendary Tier-3 Quality Modules -- at which point your are farming a decent percentage of "Legendary Ore" that can be used to produce "Legendary Anythings".

Four more days...

A trio of extra points to consider in developing approaches. One is that every quality module is taking a slot which could be used by a productivity module for recipes which accept productivity modules. Second, the use of speed modules, even in beacons, will reduce the "odds" of the quality bump offered by the quality modules. At least until you're using high-quality high-tier quality modules the "cost" of not using the speed modules could be an issue, especially in the miners. Third, once you start playing with quality you don't need to use the modules everywhere. There are two avenues you can take when not using them in a machine. 1) Set the recipe to a quality level. An ASM set to make rare circuits will reject less than rare ingredients, the same way a circuit ASM will reject steel plates. 2) Control the quality of the inputs to a certain level, or range of levels. In machines without quality modules the output can still be above normal if the lowest input is above normal. The guarantee of epic output for epic input does not require any modules. The modules would only be offering the chance to 'bump' the quality to legendary.

There is one other consideration for planning. The higher levels of quality are locked behind the research of different planets, as is the tier-3 of all modules. The 'plan' needs staging for what to do not only relative to the quality of items stockpiled, but for the level of quality, and tier of modules even available. The pair making the plans here seem to have considered that, while other readers might overlook that.

[Ayaya]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

Originally posted by Fletch:

Nice analysis! I think it makes sense to start the quality filtering right at the beginning, on the raw Ore itself. Feed any quality (not normal) ore, directly to a sub-factory whose sole job is only to produce the quality modules (and at higher qualities as you upgrade the miners).

When the raw ore ingredients start with non-normal quality, it helps (guarantees) everything else down the line -- so an "Epic Ore" is guaranteed to generate an "Epic Plate" in a smelter, etc (and that epic plate should be used to make an epic quality module). As you produce the first tier-1 quality modules (ie: "uncommon" quality), then put those directly in the electric miners to increase the odds of farming more of the higher quality ore --> which goes straight to producing even higher quality quality-modules. Keep doing that until your miners are loaded up with Legendary Tier-3 Quality Modules -- at which point your are farming a decent percentage of "Legendary Ore" that can be used to produce "Legendary Anythings".

Four more days...

A trio of extra points to consider in developing approaches. One is that every quality module is taking a slot which could be used by a productivity module for recipes which accept productivity modules. Second, the use of speed modules, even in beacons, will reduce the "odds" of the quality bump offered by the quality modules. At least until you're using high-quality high-tier quality modules the "cost" of not using the speed modules could be an issue, especially in the miners. Third, once you start playing with quality you don't need to use the modules everywhere. There are two avenues you can take when not using them in a machine. 1) Set the recipe to a quality level. An ASM set to make rare circuits will reject less than rare ingredients, the same way a circuit ASM will reject steel plates. 2) Control the quality of the inputs to a certain level, or range of levels. In machines without quality modules the output can still be above normal if the lowest input is above normal. The guarantee of epic output for epic input does not require any modules. The modules would only be offering the chance to 'bump' the quality to legendary.

There is one other consideration for planning. The higher levels of quality are locked behind the research of different planets, as is the tier-3 of all modules. The 'plan' needs staging for what to do not only relative to the quality of items stockpiled, but for the level of quality, and tier of modules even available. The pair making the plans here seem to have considered that, while other readers might overlook that.

There are already computed best combos somewhere on the wiki. Something like 3 quality + 1 poductivity or 2+2 depending on many things.

[Drizzt]

Spoilers are optional.

Buying Space Age is optional.

Installing the 2.0 update is optional.

If the spoilers that you have seen from the videos you chose to watch have made you less likely to buy the game because they seem to make the game appear less fun than you would hope, then it's possible that your choice to watch these videos has saved you some money if it turns out that the game will not be to your tastes.

Although in that case you may be best placed to watch some more videos to confirm that position, since the more perspectives from which you view a position, the better placed you will be to make an informed decision.

However, if you are simply annoyed because you have had surprises spoiled for you, then that is an entirely optional state of affairs that you created for yourself.

Personally i am looking forward to trying out the new mechanics of 2.0 first. And then playing some Space Age. Or possibly the other way around. Then maybe a few months later i will read the FFFs. And then maybe this time next year i will start to watch some videos on 2.0 and Space Age. Probably Xterminator's, since he is one of the few Factorio non speedrunner youtubers i have watched in any amount. And then probably AntiElitz and Nefrums for some speedrunning.

But personally i am very wary of watching any gameplay videos of any games until i have played a lot of them, since discovering aspects of the game and gameplay techniques is part of the fun and the value of games to me - and so robbing myself of that by watching someone else do it is kind of like paying for in game currency to skip playing the game, as is popular in many games these days.

I still have some Factorio designs that "annoy" me every time i use them - just because i know i didn't discover them for myself. Even though i may have had something similar. Or even if i didn't, since i would have either discovered the more optimal way myself, or continued optimizing my own design so that it was almost as good, but all mine.

So yes, spoilers are mostly a choice. And while they are getting harder to avoid when it comes to movies, or some aspects of some games due to forced unskippable advertising on many platforms - real gameplay spoilers are a choice.

I look forward to getting involved in some of the forum discussions about the new features - but that may well be delayed by many months, since there are always plenty of spoilers in discussions.

So I shall likely see y'all in 1000 hours or so of playtime, just to be safe ;-)

[Fletch]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

A trio of extra points to consider in developing approaches. One is that every quality module is taking a slot which could be used by a productivity module for recipes which accept productivity modules.

Opportunity costs -- the game is chock full of them. Should I build this, or should I build that? Maybe we need to state a clear goal up front, and then we can have fun coming up with different ideas on how to implement the goal via different base designs?

Second, the use of speed modules, even in beacons, will reduce the "odds" of the quality bump offered by the quality modules. At least until you're using high-quality high-tier quality modules the "cost" of not using the speed modules could be an issue, especially in the miners.

Didn't realize speed modules will reduce effectiveness of quality modules. Anyhow, I wasn't even considering putting speed modules anywhere. I was advocating front-loading (prioritizing) the electric miners with quality modules to increase frequency of high quality ore --> that can later be used to produce high-quality "anything" the player wants down the line. My thought process is to only use quality modules in the miners and nowhere else (at least until after all the miners are kitted out with Legendary Tier-3 Quality mods first).

Imagine what you can do with belts full of Legendary Iron/Copper Ore -- you make make "Legendary Anything" with that -- and not a single recycler farm loop needed, no overproduction / no "waste" (as you know I hate waste).

Third, once you start playing with quality you don't need to use the modules everywhere. There are two avenues you can take when not using them in a machine. 1) Set the recipe to a quality level. An ASM set to make rare circuits will reject less than rare ingredients, the same way a circuit ASM will reject steel plates. 2) Control the quality of the inputs to a certain level, or range of levels. In machines without quality modules the output can still be above normal if the lowest input is above normal. The guarantee of epic output for epic input does not require any modules. The modules would only be offering the chance to 'bump' the quality to legendary.

Yep, that's part of my point. I think the best approach is only using Quality mods in the electric miners, and nowhere else. Putting them into the miners guarantees some amount of high quality ore production for whatever sub-factories you direct that high quality ore into.

Legendary Ore is guaranteed to generate Legendary Anything.

There is one other consideration for planning. The higher levels of quality are locked behind the research of different planets, as is the tier-3 of all modules. The 'plan' needs staging for what to do not only relative to the quality of items stockpiled, but for the level of quality, and tier of modules even available. The pair making the plans here seem to have considered that, while other readers might overlook that.

I figured there would be things like that with the DLC. Anyhow, first goal: load miners up with "normal" tier-1 quality modules, and then direct any randomly generated quality-ore into a dedicated subfactory to produce higher qualities (and higher tiers) quality modules --> which immediately go straight to the electric miners again.

Once all the miners are maxed out with Legendary Tier 3 Quality modules -- you can then start making guaranteed high quality "anythings" with no wastage.

The alternative to everything I said: Use speed/productivity modules in the miners to produce copious excess amounts of raw ore -- and then have many recycler farm loops that is wasting 75% of those resources to grind away a high quality item...

I like my approach over that alternative. Maybe others have better ideas?