Why are they quoting Markus "Notch" Persson on their description?

[Telaso]

They might want to remove that at some point because he made Minecraft afterall...

[「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」]

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

Hurkyl の投稿を引用：

It really depends on what axis you're measuring, I think.

On this topic, my best assessment, FWIW, is that the left is identitarian and the right is individualist. What happened is not that the sides "switched places", but instead the dominant factions of the left changed (to put it crudely, from white oppressor to white savior), and both factions perceive the right as being aligned with the other guy.

The left is composed of disparate factions that are often in conflict with each other. Jewish, Catholic, Islamic, and atheist factions in competition. Feminist, Islamic and LGBTQ factions competing with each other. Race hustlers and white apologists competing for who is the more virtuous. Groups that want to expand the constitution to cover things its not intended to cover and groups that want to eliminate the parts that they don't like that were specifically put in place to prevent that very thing from happening. The vast majority of them living in high population density areas and never having set foot on any thing more outdoors than a park and living in polluted places that they themselves polluted. Are either very poor or very wealthy.

Conservatives tend to have much more things in common. Most of them are Protestant. value the rule of law, are fiscally, socially, and environmentally conservative, are middle class and have nuclear families and live in rural and suburban areas in daily contact with the environment or relying on it for their income (farmers). They tend to think along similar lines and not go to extremes on one end or the other. They are much more interested in competence than gender or skin color. They are much more likely to run small businesses and value hard work than rely on the stock market or welfare.

The independents are in the middle and make up that largest part of the population and have views somewhere in the middle of the right or left.

That's all over simplified but mostly accurate.

I think Templar might be conservative.
That fact that he puts feminism and lgbtq as factions who are against eachother might be one of the signs

[Quillithe]

Hurkyl の投稿を引用：

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

No, the Republicans knowingly used racial polarization for political gain in response to the Civil Rights act.

I'm not sure what to say if you really think the left used to be 'identitarian' as 'white oppressor'. Both parties use group identity as a way to draw votes - it's not necessarily good, but it's a political reality and to pretend otherwise is silly.

Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding what people mean by the "switched places" argument, but I'm not sure what else they could mean. I'm taking for granted the historical description of Democrats being race focused, and meshing it with my own lifetime experience with... the Democrats and the social justice left being race focused and right instead being opposed to discrimination.

And I'm taking the historical description of the Democrats for granted. I've never investigated it myself, but it seems plausible enough since it's not just the 'right' saying it, but the 'left' seems to accept it (so they can make the "switched places" argument). Although, I suppose, both sides seemingly agreeing isn't too reliable.

Firstly, I've never heard a historical description of the Democratic Party as being 'race focused' any more than any other political party, so that's news to me.

Secondly, it's absurdist to claim that one party is "opposed to discrimination" as if the other party is "pro-discrimination" or something. One could simply gesture at the Republican party and its willingness to discriminate based on sexual orientation.

Besides which, the question is usually phrased as being one of whether there should exist a bias in government to combat a bias in society - without agreeing with every statement of this nature, it's clearly not an absurd argument. Look at the aftermath of the Civil War. The slaves may have been freed and legally not discriminated against (initially), but simply leaving at that hardly ended the discrimination.

On top of which, you again seem to be judging the 'other side' by its worst excesses as if they were the mainstream, if I had to guess.

Hurkyl の投稿を引用：

Certainly on this axis identitarianism is left and individualism is right, wherever the two main parties may fall. I understand there used to be a lot of overlap between the two parties in the past, though.

Collectivism is left - identitarianism can go either way. You can certainly have a right-wing ethnic nationalist movement that espouses individualism.

[Quillithe]

「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」 の投稿を引用：

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

The left is composed of disparate factions that are often in conflict with each other. Jewish, Catholic, Islamic, and atheist factions in competition. Feminist, Islamic and LGBTQ factions competing with each other. Race hustlers and white apologists competing for who is the more virtuous. Groups that want to expand the constitution to cover things its not intended to cover and groups that want to eliminate the parts that they don't like that were specifically put in place to prevent that very thing from happening. The vast majority of them living in high population density areas and never having set foot on any thing more outdoors than a park and living in polluted places that they themselves polluted. Are either very poor or very wealthy.

Conservatives tend to have much more things in common. Most of them are Protestant. value the rule of law, are fiscally, socially, and environmentally conservative, are middle class and have nuclear families and live in rural and suburban areas in daily contact with the environment or relying on it for their income (farmers). They tend to think along similar lines and not go to extremes on one end or the other. They are much more interested in competence than gender or skin color. They are much more likely to run small businesses and value hard work than rely on the stock market or welfare.

The independents are in the middle and make up that largest part of the population and have views somewhere in the middle of the right or left.

That's all over simplified but mostly accurate.

I think Templar might be conservative.
That fact that he puts feminism and lgbtq as factions who are against eachother might be one of the signs

Nah, that seemed like a perfectly neutral description with no political bias at all.

But seriously, Conservatives are fiscally conservative? I'll accept that statement I guess, as long as nobody's trying to claim the Republicans are the conservative party with their love of deficit budgets.

[knighttemplar1960]

「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」 の投稿を引用：

I think Templar might be conservative.
That fact that he puts feminism and lgbtq as factions who are against eachother might be one of the signs

You would be wrong and you aren't apparently familiar with JK Rowling's current situation or the pejorative TERF used against women like her. I'm independent. (I voted for Perot). My screen name is a meme. I was in the Masons in the 80s (The Shiners did charity work that I wanted to be a part of) until they found out I was Native American rather than Italian and kicked me out. My wife is of African, Asian, and European descent. One of my daughters married a Swede, the other married an African. My son lives in Mexico with his Hispanic wife. We are a very blended family and represent most of the political spectrum except for the far right (including apolitical).

I'm often accused by both sides of being on the other or of "wasting my vote" on independent candidates.

[knighttemplar1960]

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

But seriously, Conservatives are fiscally conservative? I'll accept that statement I guess, as long as nobody's trying to claim the Republicans are the conservative party with their love of deficit budgets.

Conservative voters are. Most Republican politicians aren't but then neither are most Democrat politicians. In that respect its a lesser of two evils kind of choice.

[Galileus]

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

Secondly, it's absurdist to claim that one party is "opposed to discrimination" as if the other party is "pro-discrimination" or something.

But... it is though... Be it either through quotas, different scoring for different groups, priority access to monetary help, vaccines, what have you. There's plenty of voices pro-segregation, as well.

[Quillithe]

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

But seriously, Conservatives are fiscally conservative? I'll accept that statement I guess, as long as nobody's trying to claim the Republicans are the conservative party with their love of deficit budgets.

Conservative voters are. Most Republican politicians aren't but then neither are most Democrat politicians. In that respect its a lesser of two evils kind of choice.

If only we could have had Bill Weld in 2020.

A man can dream.

[Quillithe]

Full Frontal Alchemist の投稿を引用：

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

Secondly, it's absurdist to claim that one party is "opposed to discrimination" as if the other party is "pro-discrimination" or something.

But... it is though... Be it either through quotas, different scoring for different groups, priority access to dividends, vaccines, what have you. There's plenty of voices pro-segregation, as well.

There's a context to that usually where it's viewed as counterbalancing societal discrimination so it's not viewed as pro-discrimination.

[Galileus]

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

There's a context to that usually where it's viewed as counterbalancing societal discrimination so it's not viewed as pro-discrimination.

Doesn't matter what it is viewed as, it's LITERALLY discrimination.

Do you consider white supremacists to not be racist, because they see non-white as non-humans?

[「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」]

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

You would be wrong and you aren't apparently familiar with JK Rowling's current situation or the pejorative TERF used against women like her.

I do believe I am atleast quite a bit more familiar with it than you.

It is quite literally as simple as typing "feminism" into google, clicking the wikipedia link, then clicking the "Transgender people" tab
The term "trans-exlusionary radical feminist/ism" should clue you in on the fact that there might be a trans-inclusionary feminism, aka the entire rest of feminism that isn't that one minor group.
(I say minor, as on the whole people who identify as feminists are more likely than not to agree with trans rights, so they would count as a minority of feminists)

[knighttemplar1960]

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

Full Frontal Alchemist の投稿を引用：

But... it is though... Be it either through quotas, different scoring for different groups, priority access to dividends, vaccines, what have you. There's plenty of voices pro-segregation, as well.

There's a context to that usually where it's viewed as counterbalancing societal discrimination so it's not viewed as pro-discrimination.

But it is in fact discrimination. We went from segregation and separate but equal in the 50s to desegregation and busing in the 60s, 70s, and 80s to the 2020s where now BIPOC want safe spaces of their own that exclude white or pass for whites. We are coming around full circle having learned nothing.

[Galileus]

「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」 の投稿を引用：

(I say minor, as on the whole people who identify as feminists are more likely than not to agree with trans rights, so they would count as a minority of feminists)

Trans rights? How about a curveball. How about being raped in female prisons? How about loosing their own sports and bathrooms? How about being forced to consider dating trans people or be called transphobic? How about going to jail for saying "woman is an adult female"?

Did someone mention motte and bailey?

[Hedning]

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

That came from your own biases and prejudices. You saw what you wanted to see, not what I actually said.

So if you didn't intended to make a hypocrisy argument when you said it only applies to one side, then what did you want to say with it?

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

For some reason you seem to believe that it is acceptable when you do it but not when anyone else does (even though no one has done that to you.)

It's never wrong to call out dishonesty. I would never play these dishonest word-play games that you do. You make an accusation of hypocrisy. I call it for what it is and you reply with denying that you used the word hypocrisy. Yes you didn't use the word, instead you said the definition of the word. That's dishonest word-play. A honest person would not do that but if they truly didn't mean to call hypocrisy they would explain what they meant. You have never explained what you meant or who this "one side" that you referred to is.

And you keep doing it, you keep calling hypocrisy, because that's all you can do, because you have no actual argument and calling hypocrisy (whether it is present or not) is easy.

[Quillithe]

Full Frontal Alchemist の投稿を引用：

Quillithe の投稿を引用：

There's a context to that usually where it's viewed as counterbalancing societal discrimination so it's not viewed as pro-discrimination.

Doesn't matter what it is viewed as, it's LITERALLY discrimination.

Do you consider white supremacists to not be racist, because they see non-white as non-humans?

Are you actually entirely incapable of understanding concepts, or are you just pretending to be a idiot?

Seriously, I already explained how this can be viewed easily as having validity and the issue is one of dividing lines. Read the section I already wrote and try to understand how other people can have differing opinions.

[knighttemplar1960]

「๖Vɪɴʏʟ」 の投稿を引用：

knighttemplar1960 の投稿を引用：

You would be wrong and you aren't apparently familiar with JK Rowling's current situation or the pejorative TERF used against women like her.

I do believe I am atleast quite a bit more familiar with it than you.

It is quite literally as simple as typing "feminism" into google, clicking the wikipedia link, then clicking the "Transgender people" tab
The term "trans-exlusionary radical feminist/ism" should clue you in on the fact that there might be a trans-inclusionary feminism, aka the entire rest of feminism that isn't that one minor group.
(I say minor, as on the whole people who identify as feminists are more likely than not to agree with trans rights, so they would count as a minority of feminists)

Splitting hairs and you can't know the thoughts of all the feminists. Many may just remain silent for fear of being cancelled by (anti)social media. You are not likely to be more familiar with it than I am since I have members of both groups in my very blended family. Also Wikipedia is a terrible source as anyone can alter it or create a new page. I always skip over wikipedia entries and look for the actual sources that are sited instead.