Why the restrictions? Why can't I have just one base?

[radix_s]

In order to unlock some tech I need to go to some planet and 'complete' it. I get it. But why place restrictions on players like for example the recycler being buildable only on Furgola? It makes no sense.
Some restrictions are fun but many are there just to enforce a particular play style upon players where you need to build complex logistical networks. Or no Uranium and Stone in space (let me repeat: no stone in space). Many, many unnecessary restrictions. Players like me prefer to unlock stuff but keep things in one place - as in mine planets and export everything to the main base (preferably space station or Nauvis) and the game is made to make this impossible (not to mention crazy small rocket space and the need to explode rocket launchers and limited capacity of the platforms to send items to planets). Why place restrictions upon players? Why not unlock stuff to be obtainable and buildable anywhere so it is up to the players what is their play style?
If you like complex factories and huge logistic networks then I am cool with that but why force it? Why close to other play styles?

It was totally fine with Space Exploration mod since that was made for a specific play stle in mind, but for official DLC it should be made much more open.

[Budmind]

you can build most buildings on nauvis. you just have to craft them on their respective planets

[radix_s]

Originally posted by Budmind:

you can build most buildings on nauvis. you just have to craft them on their respective planets

Yeah. Exactly that. Why the fuss? Once I unlock something why can't I craft it anywhere?

[Shurenai]

RE: Recycler, It's not "buildable only on fulgora"... It's "only researchable with Fulgora science packs." It is used a lot ON Fulgora, but you can build it anywhere after you've researched it afaik.

As for 'Why restrictions', The same reason as all the restrictions you played with in Vanilla, but over the course of dozens, hundreds, or thousands of hours have simply forgotten were even restrictions in the first place and now just consider them to be part of the game unquestioningly.

For example... Inserters can only take from one side, and put to the exact opposite side, and always places on the far side of the belt. That's several restrictions; It can't rotate 90 degrees, or any other amount of degrees, it cant Place on the near side of the belt even though it can pickup from either side of the source belt. It also can't arbitrarily reverse direction to, for example, pick up an item off the "Place" belt to put it into an assembler. Why can't it do these things? Because restrictions are part of what make the puzzle interesting.

Oil refineries, You could never control what order the fluids came out of the ports, you were Restricted by the existing order and had to work around it.

Conveyor belts, An artificial throughput restriction of a different sort, Literally restricting the flow of items through your factory and making you plan around having more belts carrying the same item around so that you can get it everywhere you need it.

Power poles, Arbitrary wire distances limit how far apart you can place them, and by extension, how you can design parts of your factory based on what poles you have access to. Also arbitrary power zones around the poles.

I could go on. But, My point is... Restrictions are the name of the game. Restrictions are what make an interesting puzzle. Not being able to just ship everything to your happy home on Nauvis is the entire point- Making you have to take on a more challenging area, and work outside your comfort zone to learn new things.

[DaBa]

Originally posted by radix_s:

Originally posted by Budmind:

you can build most buildings on nauvis. you just have to craft them on their respective planets

Yeah. Exactly that. Why the fuss? Once I unlock something why can't I craft it anywhere?

Same reason why any other restriction in this game was put into place: because it makes the game more interesting and provides you with more problems to solve.

[jagholin]

Because you can't. If everything could be possible to do on nauvis, there would be ZERO reasons to do anything anywhere else. Planets would be reduced to being just resource outposts, and you would cry why the game is so stupid and unimaginative.

[Zaflis]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Oil refineries, You could never control what order the fluids came out of the ports, you were Restricted by the existing order and had to work around it.

You can flip the oil refineries inputs and outputs around now, although middle output will always be middle. Keys are H and V. It also lets you make more compact chemical plant designs.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Zaflis:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Oil refineries, You could never control what order the fluids came out of the ports, you were Restricted by the existing order and had to work around it.

You can flip the oil refineries inputs and outputs around now, although middle output will always be middle. Keys are H and V. It also lets you make more compact chemical plant designs.

I'm aware, But I was referring to the old Vanilla game. Thus my phrasing, "You could never" and not "You cannot". Sorry if that wasn't clear enough.

[radix_s]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Not being able to just ship everything to your happy home on Nauvis is the entire point

No, that is just your point of view on how you like to do stuff. I love the 'solve the puzzle' of how to manufacture stuff but I hate the need to scale up and creation of nightmare logistic network part. The base game was medicore in the need for scale up - it was not that required and gave freedom. Especially for mods.

Space age is closed to only cater to what you consider fun and not all Factorio fans.

It also makes modding a nightmare.

Anyways - it should be - give players planets with new stuff and then complete freedom on how they want to build their bases. Unlock something on a planet and then it is available anywhere. If you are a fan of restrictions then it is up to a mod.

In other words it should not be closed and somebody needing to make a mod to open it up. It should be open and then somebody can make a mod to close it and make it more challenging if you like this sort of challenges.

Take a look at space exploration mod description - it literally says the mod is not for everyone. Well, the DLC should be for all base game fans.

[radix_s]

Originally posted by jagholin:

Because you can't. If everything could be possible to do on nauvis, there would be ZERO reasons to do anything anywhere else. Planets would be reduced to being just resource outposts, and you would cry why the game is so stupid and unimaginative.

But that is exactly my point - if you want to play it in the way of planets being resource outposts - please do. If you want to have comples logistic networks - please do.

Freedom.

EDIT: In the space exploration mod you had that freedom - you could build on a planet or make a huge space station and ship all ore to that station. It gave you freedom.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by radix_s:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Not being able to just ship everything to your happy home on Nauvis is the entire point

Take a look at space exploration mod description - it literally says the mod is not for everyone. Well, the DLC should be for all base game fans.

To use your own words, "No, that is just your point of view on how you like to do stuff."

Why exactly should the DLC be for all base game fans? It's extraneous to the base game, It's Different from the base game, Else it would just be...part of the base game. DLCs are not meant to be enjoyable to 100% of base game owners, They're meant to be an optional purchase that expands the game in some way. If the way it expands it isn't up your alley, then you don't have to buy it. Just like you didn't have to buy the base game if it in it's own right wasn't up your alley.

[radix_s]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

Originally posted by radix_s:

Take a look at space exploration mod description - it literally says the mod is not for everyone. Well, the DLC should be for all base game fans.

To use your own words, "No, that is just your point of view on how you like to do stuff."

Why exactly should the DLC be for all base game fans? It's extraneous to the base game, It's Different from the base game, Else it would just be...part of the base game. DLCs are not meant to be enjoyable to 100% of base game owners, They're meant to be an optional purchase that expands the game in some way. If the way it expands it isn't up your alley, then you don't have to buy it. Just like you didn't have to buy the base game if it in it's own right wasn't up your alley.

DLC should expand the game and not change the play style. Or force different play style.

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by radix_s:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

To use your own words, "No, that is just your point of view on how you like to do stuff."

Why exactly should the DLC be for all base game fans? It's extraneous to the base game, It's Different from the base game, Else it would just be...part of the base game. DLCs are not meant to be enjoyable to 100% of base game owners, They're meant to be an optional purchase that expands the game in some way. If the way it expands it isn't up your alley, then you don't have to buy it. Just like you didn't have to buy the base game if it in it's own right wasn't up your alley.

DLC should expand the game and not change the play style. Or force different play style.

Again, "That is just your point of view". That's how you Personally think of DLC.

But, That personal view is not holy writ for game design.

And to expand my prior statement, The base game itself is not for everyone, It's not even for every purchaser of the base game. Many bought it, played a little over 2 hours and quit. Many others played it to completion, and quit. Many more bought it, played it for a handful of hours, and then modded out everything they hated. Many more bought it and beat it, and made a megabase, and wanted more, so they reached for mods again.

The prolific modding community and the vast variety of mods alone speaks to just how much the base game isn't for everyone- So how can you expect a DLC, which is by definition an optional purchase beyond the base game, to be for everyone?

It's just your view. You're unhappy that it offers you a logistical challenge that you disagree with... Which is fine. But, Many of us DO like it. So, Do what many before you have done; Reach for a mod. Or become a modder to make exactly the mod(s) you want.

[Chindraba]

The DLC should be exactly what the creators of it want it to be. Any mods should be exactly what the creators of them want them to be.

The devs of Factorio were quite explicit on not wanting what you want.

From Friday Facts #387 - Swimming in lava[www.factorio.com] we have their statement of not wanting the planets to be the outposts you want them to be.

Originally posted by FFF #387:

As we've already mentioned, while it's easy to assume that Nauvis would remain to be the location of the main factory for most players, we really wanted to avoid the situation where the new planets become just mining outposts. We wanted the player to build something that feels like a worthy factory on each of the planets.

That was in Dec. of last year. Plenty of notice that outposting wasn't the answer, and enough time for you to decide if the DLC was what you wanted or not.

[RiO]

Originally posted by radix_s:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

To use your own words, "No, that is just your point of view on how you like to do stuff."

Why exactly should the DLC be for all base game fans? It's extraneous to the base game, It's Different from the base game, Else it would just be...part of the base game. DLCs are not meant to be enjoyable to 100% of base game owners, They're meant to be an optional purchase that expands the game in some way. If the way it expands it isn't up your alley, then you don't have to buy it. Just like you didn't have to buy the base game if it in it's own right wasn't up your alley.

DLC should expand the game and not change the play style. Or force different play style.

In other words: you're just asking for more of the same with a different coat of paint; 'and that'll be 10 dollars please'

... Paradox Interactive games might be more your speed, then.

[radix_s]

Originally posted by Chindraba:

The DLC should be exactly what the creators of it want it to be. Any mods should be exactly what the creators of them want them to be.

The devs of Factorio were quite explicit on not wanting what you want.

From Friday Facts #387 - Swimming in lava[www.factorio.com] we have their statement of not wanting the planets to be the outposts you want them to be.

Originally posted by FFF #387:

As we've already mentioned, while it's easy to assume that Nauvis would remain to be the location of the main factory for most players, we really wanted to avoid the situation where the new planets become just mining outposts. We wanted the player to build something that feels like a worthy factory on each of the planets.

That was in Dec. of last year. Plenty of notice that outposting wasn't the answer, and enough time for you to decide if the DLC was what you wanted or not.

This still does not answer the main question in this post.

Why design games like that? Some of the best games out there became popular because of the vibe and the freedom of being able to do things the hell people want to.

And then for some reason it starts to rot. Some new lead comes in, takes over and implements his/her 'vision'. And the game dies. Because any new content and DLC's further erode what was once fun.

But you are right - I should have taken a deeper look at what the DLC was all about. I was expecting a supercharged Space Exploration mod and what we got is 'some vision' that does not have the same vibe as the base game has.