I really want to like this game, but I can't

[Supremely Nutty]

After not playing the game for about 3 years, I decided to try getting back into Factorio again due to the new DLC having come out. This was always a game that looked really appealing, but I was never able to quite click with it. Trying it again 3 years later... I still can't click with it.

My main issue with Factorio is thus: progression never feels permanent. Designing and building parts of my factory is never rewarding because it's always temporary, I'll always have to redesign, reposition, or remove stuff to make way for new machines or update my production lines to produce new materials. In other games, when I kill a boss, or clear out an enemy camp, or complete an objective, that's it. I check a box indicating I've finished that goal, and I move on. In Factorio, there is no "moving on." You are constantly going back to change parts of your factory in order to progress, sometimes outright scrapping entire portions simply because they aren't useful anymore. What's the point in spending hours setting up a factory if I'll eventually have to tear it all up and relocate once the local resources run out?

Factorio's main gameplay loop involves having problems, and using automation to create solutions to those problems. This is a gameplay loop that I find utterly tedious. I have a set number of furnaces, but I need more to increase iron plate production. If I build more furnaces, though, I'll have to move my assemblers, and then move their inserters, and their electrical poles, and reconnect them to my supply chain, and then move the supply chain's inserters and electrical poles, etc etc. Every problem you try to solve merely creates 10 more problems for you to solve, many of which only rear their heads later on when your factory is even bigger, making them even more complex to solve. "The factory must grow," eh? More like "The factory must redesign 80% of itself because you put a conveyor belt 1 space too close to an assembler and you can't adjust it without tearing up and repositioning everything around it."

I really, really want to like this game. There's a lot of stuff in it that I find really appealing. It is satisfying to see the machines whirring and churning about, the combat's hybridization of survival game and strategy/tower defense mechanics is cool, and the spritework and music are beautiful. It's just that the factory building gameplay, of this factory building game, is completely exhausting for me. Playing Factorio feels like a chore, and personally, I play video games to avoid doing chores.

[Esxhaton]

Probably you should try a game where tower Defense is the core mechanic and with just a little bit of side-automation.

[Khaylain]

Perfectly okay to not like a game type, or even just how one specific game in the genre does things.

But I don't see how you'd have to "tear it all up and relocate once the local resources run out?" when you can just bring the new resources in to the already created factory. Then again I really like the trains in Factorio and use them extensively, which may mean I'm blind to some problems people who don't use the trains come across.

I absolutely "clear a boss" so to speak, I design a part of the factory and just keep it supplied with resources and it just keeps working okay. I feel no need to constantly rework it if it works reasonably okay. But if you feel like you have to do so that's your legitimate feelings on the matter, and the only one who really has any say over that is you, not everybody else who don't feel your feelings.

[Pariwak]

Maybe you can benefit from approaching base design a bit differently. There is no need to make something so compact, belts are cheap and space is plentiful. Alternatively, use a main bus[wiki.factorio.com] design for something straightforward to expand indefintely.

For running out of a resource, you can connect a new ore patch to your existing smelting setup by a long belt or train.

What happens in my games is we start with a very compact and messy spaghetti thing that ends up being a "starter" item mall for the actual base that's more tidy and spaced out. There's very little tearing down necessary if any.

[Wafl]

This is probably a sign that you're putting stuff too close together. Having large gaps between production blocks makes it easier to place new buildings and gives you room to route belts together. Once you unlock construction robots and supply them with basic buildings it's also easy to cut/paste things to move them around and create blueprints to allow reusing patterns.

[Supremely Nutty]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

Perfectly okay to not like a game type, or even just how one specific game in the genre does things.

But I don't see how you'd have to "tear it all up and relocate once the local resources run out?" when you can just bring the new resources in to the already created factory. Then again I really like the trains in Factorio and use them extensively, which may mean I'm blind to some problems people who don't use the trains come across.

I absolutely "clear a boss" so to speak, I design a part of the factory and just keep it supplied with resources and it just keeps working okay. I feel no need to constantly rework it if it works reasonably okay. But if you feel like you have to do so that's your legitimate feelings on the matter, and the only one who really has any say over that is you, not everybody else who don't feel your feelings.

Trains may make it easier to transport resources from distant harvesting operations to your main production facility, but you still need to set up those trains and harvesting operations. You don't start with the ability to build trains, so parts of your base will have to be adjusted to accommodate them if you eventually work them into your factory.

Sure, I suppose you don't have to rework your base constantly in order to increase production, assuming you're satisfied with researching at a fixed rate the entire game, but I personally don't have the patience to play this game any less efficiently than I already do.

[PhoenixFury]

Start large, build small. Belts are cheap. I often dedicate a whole area to "Alright, green circuits will go here." It's like building a server room, initially most of it is empty space, and I have blueprints that are basically "Blades", which I stick in as needed, and route the associated resources off the bus. One, two, three X in, Y out, run in parallel... Need more plates? Cool, link another unloading slip onto the rail network and thread that into the bus as well, having set aside some space for adding additional lanes. Expanding resource "intake" is easy, you just capture areas to mine resources and link them up to the unloading network via train. The resource patch could be anywhere, it doesn't really matter, if the distance is long enough you'll use a higher grade of fuel or a second train in a circuit. The trains are ideally running on a two-lane circular network, which can service many stations with minimal gridlock.

It takes forethought, I'll grant, and I sometimes make mistakes I need to go back later, but stepping back and visualizing how things "should look", and starting with that in mind will save you a ton of headache in the long run.

There's no need to scale infinitely unless you want to, the 'win condition' of the game doesn't require a gigantic megabase, unless you're imposing your own conditions.

[g6qwerty]

Heck I just start building as i need it, then used that base supplies to build a bigger section on, then built an entirely different base and i didn't hardly tear down anything except for the very starter stuff. And some times i'm like ooh i have a different idea how to do something, and go nah save it for later or its too much work so go meh who cares, and promptly forgot about it a few seconds.

[Yader]

Originally posted by Esxhaton:

Probably you should try a game where tower Defense is the core mechanic and with just a little bit of side-automation.

basically mindustry

[Salmon Snake]

No offence but you couldnt solve the problems that were presented. And thats okay good not every game is for everyone.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by MONAD:

Factorio's main gameplay loop involves having problems, and using automation to create solutions to those problems. This is a gameplay loop that I find utterly tedious. I have a set number of furnaces, but I need more to increase iron plate production. If I build more furnaces, though, I'll have to move my assemblers, and then move their inserters, and their electrical poles, and reconnect them to my supply chain, and then move the supply chain's inserters and electrical poles, etc etc. Every problem you try to solve merely creates 10 more problems for you to solve,

Here's the really neat thing about Factorio... you just described a problem you have. Now it's time to automate it!

For the beginning, you can spend some time optimizing your designs so they're easy to build. Or changing how you do things. E.g. your building needs three inputs? Rather than put belts 2 and 3 tiles away and use a mix of yellow and red inserters... put the belts 3 and 4 tiles away and now you can build using all red inserters, so you don't have to keep switching all the time! Or lay out buildings so you can just click and drag some things to construct rather than having to carefully place each piece in the right place.

Partway through chemical (blue) science, you unlock construction robots and blueprints. When you set up the relevant logistics, you are now capable of copy-pasting large sections of your factory. You can use these to write a book of blueprints that make your designs readily available to paste whenever you like.

So what was now a several minute job to move that smelting array two blocks over because you placed it badly... is now the job of a few seconds giving orders and doing something else for a little while as automation takes care of it.

They help even the act of building a new block itself. You don't have to make a line of 20 assemblers making low density structures. You make a line of four of them (or some other number), get the belts, assemblers, and power poles how you like it, then you copy it and paste it four more times.

So, just like early game how you find yourself spending too much time making inserters so you automate the production of the intermediates (or even the finished products)... in the mid-late game if you find yourself spending too much time on construction tasks, you make blueprints to automate it so it's only a few clicks.

Then you can spend most of your time putting assembling the building blocks you've created into a productive factory, and designing new building blocks to use!

[Sparky mark phillips]

i get it i feel the same about souls like games, not sure what it is maybe its just not your thing.

[Jx]

Just one more factory ... Only one... Onlyy... : D

[info]

Originally posted by MONAD:

My main issue with Factorio is thus: progression never feels permanent

this likely means you're completely misunderstanding how to play the game. you're likely making some crazy mistake in how you approach the game and never notice it, because you think "this is how the game wants me to play", when the game absolutely does not.

"progression never feels permanent" is such a gigantic non-sequitur that you must be doing something (I have really no idea what) that is kind of a "bad habit" and apply the same principle all over the game and running into a fun killer nonstop.

looking back at my own gaming history, I've sure done my fair share of things like that.

I can only recommend to rethink your approach. honestly, I cannot even imagine how someone can arrive at "progression never feels permanent"... but I believe you. I had similar reactions that did not seem to make sense until I spotted where I went wrong in some games...

just in case you're not doing it:

use large scale blueprints you yourself make. design small or large factories, then place copies.
if you use main bus (I never do), then use a different principle, like smaller compartmentalized factories connected by long trains.
use trains. use more trains.

if the game's too simplistic in its selection of materials, and you feel forced to over optimize, then use Pyanodon's mod suite (I'd skip "alien life", but take everything else) and the game will make it impossible to use any designs everyone else constantly shows off in youtube videos because they don't work due to the complexity involved.

[königplatzen]

The biters are meant to be an expansion hindrance, resource sink and a certain kind of threat. I think, it's pretty hard to get a tough balanced challenge with them. Early game is rather difficult esp. on deathworld, but once you unlock some good techs and invest time in defense, they get more of an annoyance.

you build a base to build a base to build a base...
There's no need to rip it up, just build somewhere else. Or at least wait, till you get construction bots. Many people use a small starter base for red/green science + some basic material production like gears, circuits, ammo, etc.

"Factorio's main gameplay loop involves having problems"
That's quite true. Solving problems can be very satisfying, but can be also taxing. Esp. if you try to solve everything all at once. I can't play factorio anymore for long chunks of time.

Sometimes, it's helpful to get some input, how other people solve certain problems. You don't have to invent all wheels yourself. (But be aware, that it can be dangerous and optimize the fun out of the game, if you stop solving problems yourself)

f.e. there are also some design concepts, which are helpful. f.e.
a basic smelter line is 2x24 stone furnaces for one yellow belt. if you upgrade them to steel furnaces you can use a red belt.

for building big, you can try cityblocks, which is pretty extensible.

Youtube is full of guides for basically everything.

[Swede]

Originally posted by MONAD:

More like "The factory must redesign 80% of itself because you put a conveyor belt 1 space too close to an assembler and you can't adjust it without tearing up and repositioning everything around it."

You're not wrong, that happens a lot. I find it very helpful to use blueprints to estimate where things will fit, and add extra space around my planned buildings so I don't box myself in.

It gets better later in the game, when you have construction drones that can build your copy/paste blueprints for you. It can also help to install the Factory Planner in-game mod, to help you pre-plan how many construction plants and what materials you will need to produce X of some widget.