Factorio

Factorio

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Frosty Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:42am
Minor complaint .... and a great opportunity for the community to flame me :)
So... as with most people that have thousands of hours in this game, I was really looking forward to this release. But maybe unlike most I do not have all that much time these days, having a full time job and owning a business on the side - so my gaming time is precious to me, and not to be wasted by stupid things... like reading release documentation. :D

I jumped right in on day one when this was released... I didn't see much different in the start, and I had a few mods turned on as I always did, so achievements were turned off... again no problem. I was worried that I didn't see any new techs though... like the new quality stuff. So... as a software engineer I did what came naturally to me. I asked ChatGPT wtf ... and it happily told me that those new techs would magically appear after I launched the first rocket. So, as I usually do I took my time in the pre-game and set things up the way I like - taking dozens of hours to make it past yellow science. Launched a rocket... and.... nothing. Game over. Nothing new. wtf.

So... I naturally went back to chat GPT and asked wtf! Could my mods have stopped progression so that I can't see new content? Answer: Yes! You need to get the new achievements to see the new content! ... I I started yet another new game. I did pure vanilla this time to make sure, and yes I did see achievements happening, so I pressed on... and launched a rocket... and NOTHING! wtf!

Only then did I think to clear out my hundreds of old mods that I had not used in years .... which made it possible to see the few new mods like "space age".

So... /rant on - WTF guys. If you're going to put a DLC in a damn mod, at least turn the damn thing on by default! Or warn people they need the mod to see the new content! /rant off

/flame shield on

<frosty>
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
MechBFP Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:46am 
It is turned on by default, lmao.
Thryden Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:49am 
Yeah, mine was enabled by default....

Maybe when choosing mods for your run, you disabled everything first and didn't think about it?
Khaylain Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:54am 
Using ChatGPT as a search engine, not looking through the tech tree and using common sense, not looking through the Factoripedia. Seems like the claim of being a software engineer is nebulous at best XD
PunCrathod Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:57am 
Originally posted by Frosty:
I asked ChatGPT
Well there is your first mistake. ChatGPT is about as reliable source of information as a sack of potatoes with random words written on the potatoes.
DeathRow Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:58am 
Hey man, if thats how you like spending your precious gaming time, by all means keep playing the base game ❤️
Frosty Oct 31, 2024 @ 11:00am 
Originally posted by MechBFP:
It is turned on by default, lmao.
Hmm... ok, .... ya. I may.... only MAY! have turned off all mods since most of them were showing as not updated. And I may have just turned on the QOL mods I can't live without these days. So ya, fair play. Totally my fault.

Originally posted by Khaylain:
Using ChatGPT as a search engine, not looking through the tech tree and using common sense, not looking through the Factoripedia. Seems like the claim of being a software engineer is nebulous at best XD
Yup, I can see that from the limited info available. You did forget the whole time thing though. I really don't have time these days to read everything I would like to! ... but believe it or not I am a pretty darn good developer, if I do say so myself! :D

Originally posted by Thryden:
Yeah, mine was enabled by default....

Maybe when choosing mods for your run, you disabled everything first and didn't think about it?
That is exactly what I did now that I think back on it! ... <doh!>
Frosty Oct 31, 2024 @ 11:00am 
Originally posted by DeathRow:
Hey man, if thats how you like spending your precious gaming time, by all means keep playing the base game ❤️
+1 to this! :D
Frosty Oct 31, 2024 @ 11:03am 
Originally posted by PunCrathod:
Originally posted by Frosty:
I asked ChatGPT
Well there is your first mistake. ChatGPT is about as reliable source of information as a sack of potatoes with random words written on the potatoes.
Ok, pushback time.

I am part of a fairly small development team at a financial services firm. And we have all increased our productivity by around 30% using ChatGPT.

You do need to know how to prompt it properly to get the results you want, and the free version kinda sucks - but your comment is just wrong. It is super useful for many things, including information gathering and aggregation, especially in gaming. It is rarely wrong with most things... but ya, it did screw the pooch pretty wildly in this instance. So the takeaway is something we always do anyway: Verify that ♥♥♥♥ before you paste it in production! :D
Khaylain Oct 31, 2024 @ 11:13am 
Originally posted by Frosty:
-snip-
Originally posted by Khaylain:
Using ChatGPT as a search engine, not looking through the tech tree and using common sense, not looking through the Factoripedia. Seems like the claim of being a software engineer is nebulous at best XD
Yup, I can see that from the limited info available. You did forget the whole time thing though. I really don't have time these days to read everything I would like to! ... but believe it or not I am a pretty darn good developer, if I do say so myself! :D
-snip-
I didn't really forget "the whole time thing", because using an actual search engine for fact finding is miles better than ChatGPT or equivalents. Gets you better results faster.
There are things ChatGPT can be useful for, but truth isn't its forte.
To make sure cheese sticks to pizza one can use a bit of non-toxic glue underneath it, if you can recognize that meme.

Also funny how spending 5 minutes on looking through the patch notes for 2.0.7 could've saved dozens of hours on building the factory to rocket in the base game XD
Fel Oct 31, 2024 @ 11:27am 
Originally posted by Frosty:
So... /rant on - WTF guys. If you're going to put a DLC in a damn mod, at least turn the damn thing on by default! Or warn people they need the mod to see the new content! /rant off
What you apparently never noticed is that the base game's content is also a mod.
One you can't disable, but it's still in the mod list.

The likely reason for it not to be on by default could be because you had other mods turned on that caused an error during loading and you clicked on "disable all mods".
PunCrathod Oct 31, 2024 @ 12:09pm 
Originally posted by Frosty:
Originally posted by PunCrathod:
Well there is your first mistake. ChatGPT is about as reliable source of information as a sack of potatoes with random words written on the potatoes.
Ok, pushback time.

I am part of a fairly small development team at a financial services firm. And we have all increased our productivity by around 30% using ChatGPT.

You do need to know how to prompt it properly to get the results you want, and the free version kinda sucks - but your comment is just wrong. It is super useful for many things, including information gathering and aggregation, especially in gaming. It is rarely wrong with most things... but ya, it did screw the pooch pretty wildly in this instance. So the takeaway is something we always do anyway: Verify that ♥♥♥♥ before you paste it in production! :D
If ChatGPT is increasing your productivity that is not a sign that ChatGPT is good. It's a sign that the people were worse.
Estelyen Oct 31, 2024 @ 7:45pm 
The thing about ChatGPT is that it need to learn new information first before it can give reliable answers about any topic. Using it for software development is fine, because software development and most programming languages have been around for a long time. Tbh, I'm a developer too and I do use it from time to time. But I still double-check everything that comes out of ChatGPT and there's still way too many errors in its replies for me to trust it explicitly.

Especially when asking it about information that is very fresh, like how game mechanics work in an expansion that has only been released a few days ago. It just didn't have enough time to learn about Factorio: Space Age yet, but it still spouts wrong information with the same confidence as every other piece of information. That's why it's always important to double-check, which usually isn't much work and can still be done faster than researching stuff the old fashioned way. But don't just trust it blindly.
Last edited by Estelyen; Oct 31, 2024 @ 7:46pm
RiO Nov 1, 2024 @ 12:18am 
Originally posted by Estelyen:
The thing about ChatGPT is that it need to learn new information first before it can give reliable answers about any topic. Using it for software development is fine, because software development and most programming languages have been around for a long time.

Using ChatGPT for software development is actually one of the worst things to use it for, as programming languages, while very structured languages, are as far from nominal written human language as possible - second only to pure math.

And LLMs perform horribly at it, because they're in essence nothing but glorified 8-balls running on a stochastic prediction model of what is the most likely next word in normal written language, that the end-user would like to see printed back.

For instance, you used to be able to ask ChatGPT what the answer to 1+1 was, and it would adamantly try to convince you that the answer was 3. Its staff fixed that type of rote arithmetic to make it 'understand them' (aka; pushed in a few hard overrides, probably) - and afterwards it would indeed answer 2 -- until you'd ask it: "2, are you sure it's not 3?" And it would again try to placate the end-user by answering: "why, yes -- you're right; it should be 3." Because LLMs are dumb-as-brick parlor tricks. They can't actually apply logic or reason. They'll just assume that what you directly tell them is correct. (Worse still; they're trained on a corpus of data that's largely scavenged from the public Internet. Which is full of idiots who don't know what they're talking about. Think about that for a bit!)


Now combine that with programming. Where you have to be meticulous about every little thing happening while performing arithmetic; or happening while manipulating the innards of a complex data structure according to the recipe defined by an algorithm; recipes which often are counter-intuitive at face value.
You're asking an AI ('artificial incompetence') to dredge up the answer to complex algorithmic problems you don't know how to solve. And you can't rely on your intuition to verify whether what it returns is actually correct or is a case of cyber-meth induced hallucination.
Yeah-- that will end just great.


Now compound that with the fact that another major part of actual real-world software development relies on third-party libraries, frameworks, APIs, etc. All of which represent a rapidly shifting landscape. I.e. an LLM trained on information for a framework or API's prior version from a year ago, is probably going to be worthless. Worse-- it does not comprehend actual concepts such as "software versions" and thus if you train it over multiple versions it will start to mix and match both.
(I've seen this happen in practice btw. With colleagues struggling to make sense of the nonsense it was outputting to them while hamfisting two conflicting APIs together. In the meantime, I actually pulled up the then-current documentation; read through it; produced a working sample; and handed it to them, while they were still trying to make sense of ChatGPT's tossed salad mess.)
Last edited by RiO; Nov 1, 2024 @ 12:21am
ChillCore (Banned) Nov 1, 2024 @ 12:57am 
Originally posted by RiO:
Think about that for a bit!)
do I have to?
ChatGPT's tossed salad mess.)
so glad I skipped, kinda, to the end /s
Last edited by ChillCore; Nov 1, 2024 @ 1:08am
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Date Posted: Oct 31, 2024 @ 10:42am
Posts: 14