Rail Signals

[doubleopez]

I'm trying to get two trains on one track. The track has a long middle part with two loops on each end. The one end will sometimes function within itself but when they get to the other end it pops up as "no path" even though it has a green lights. I have plenty of blocks that are long enough to fit the trains. I made the signals identical to the other end and it still stops working. I must simply be too dumb to figure this out as I have never been successful. I currently have a signal at my trainstop to unload, another signal ahead on the track to allow the previous train to park and then one more in case it needs to wait for long path to clear.
The first train unloads then says "no path" wait for the other train to clear the shared path but they both just stop and hang out. I'm clearly missing something. It's annoying. I don't have room to add a complete circle. Just trying to bring iron into my main base.

[Chindraba]

Step one: screenshots of the rails with signals showing and train stops included.

We can guess what you have, and even think we know what the issues are (two-way trains on one-way signals and/or off-side trainstops). Seeing what you have, however, will remove all the guesses and get solid answers.

[malogoss]

A train waiting for a path to clear is one thing. You could have a 4 way crossing deadlocked, with many trains waiting for all eternity, you'd still not get a "no path" message.

A no path message means some rails are missing, or a train stop is on the wrong side of a track, or signals make it impossible for a train to move in one direction on a rail section, or that your train should be bidirectional but isn't because all locomotives are pulling in the same direction.

1-2 screenshots and the problem would be spotted very fast, if not by me by others.

[Fel]

For anything related to trains and signals, you really want to provide screenshots because they will have many details that are key to solving the problem.

But when learning train signals it is a good idea to not do 2-ways rails (rails that accept trains going in either direction) because it complicates things quite a bit.

Rules of thumb for signals are as follow.
1/ Trains only see signals that are on their right hand side (based on their current direction even if they can go both ways).

2/ Signals that are only one one side of the track make that portion of the track 1-way, denying access to trains from the other direction.
It is usually what you want to achieve when working with signals anyways (2 sets of rails, one for each direction) but it actively works against you when doing 2-ways rails.

3/ For intersections (which means any place where trains could come from anywhere other than behind each others) you want a chain signal right before (and throughout if you want but it is optional, only meant to increase throughput) and a normal signal right after it.

4/ Any portion of tracks between intersections that is not long enough to fit at least one whole train is technically part of said intersections.

5/ For long stretches without intersections, you want normal signals at regular intervals to allow trains to follow each others.

6/ There is a "debug" tool of sorts you can use to see where the issue is.
Open the train's UI, hold Ctrl and move the cursor over the path your train should be taking.
If there is a line, it means that the train can get there (the line represents the path it would take as well) so when there is no longer a line it means that you went past the problematic place (or one of them if you have more than one of course).
Ctrl+click sends the train to where you are pointing (assuming there is a path), it will delete the order a few seconds after getting there so it can be a good way to travel to places without train stops or to call a train to you.


Signals are both very simple (they just look at the block ahead of them, and the signals at the end of the block for chain signals) and weirdly complex because they work a bit differently from how we tend to think about them.
A majority of people have some troubles understanding them at first

[The_Mell]

Originally posted by Godhand:

there are some good train signal tutorials on youtube, i've even seen a youtube short which summed it up very well in just a few seconds.

You can do so in words with just some sentences, too - it just lacks help of additional visualization.


Stations and signals are always placed on the right side of track (seen in driving direction of train).
One way tracks therefore only have signals on one side of track.
Two way tracks, that means one track used to go both directions, have signals on both sides at the same spot, that means they are mirrored on both sides. (Take a signal into hand to see blocks on tracks - there is no block between mirrored signals!)

Rules for signals:
1) Use a chain signal (2 lights) before (and in) intersections.
2) Use a standard signal (3 lights) after intersections leading to straights of at least train length (and repeated on long straights in a distance of train length).


Some notes:
What is an intersection? Whenever trains could collide. Therefore most parts of system using two way tracks are considered intersections.
Two way track systems with two headed trains feature only chain signal except for dead end train station. There you also find a mixed mirrored signal setup: standard in & chain out.



About OP's problem:
I guess the setup looks simple like this:
o---o
Just one track at the moment with 2 loops and 2 trains.

Signaling should be like this:
Chain signal (2 lights) at end of end of each loop before entering connection.
Standard signal (3 lights) at beginning of each loop plus additional one after lenght of train for waiting area if this does not interfere with the stations - else (or maybe addtionally) have a standard signal after train station if there is enough space for a train up to the chain signal before entering connection.
No signals needed on connection and therefore no mirrored signals needed.
All signals would be on right side of track seen in driving direction.

[doubleopez]

Originally posted by The_Mell:

Originally posted by Godhand:

there are some good train signal tutorials on youtube, i've even seen a youtube short which summed it up very well in just a few seconds.

You can do so in words with just some sentences, too - it just lacks help of additional visualization.


Stations and signals are always placed on the right side of track (seen in driving direction of train).
One way tracks therefore only have signals on one side of track.
Two way tracks, that means one track used to go both directions, have signals on both sides at the same spot, that means they are mirrored on both sides. (Take a signal into hand to see blocks on tracks - there is no block between mirrored signals!)

Rules for signals:
1) Use a chain signal (2 lights) before (and in) intersections.
2) Use a standard signal (3 lights) after intersections leading to straights of at least train length (and repeated on long straights in a distance of train length).


Some notes:
What is an intersection? Whenever trains could collide. Therefore most parts of system using two way tracks are considered intersections.
Two way track systems with two headed trains feature only chain signal except for dead end train station. There you also find a mixed mirrored signal setup: standard in & chain out.



About OP's problem:
I guess the setup looks simple like this:
o---o
Just one track at the moment with 2 loops and 2 trains.

Signaling should be like this:
Chain signal (2 lights) at end of end of each loop before entering connection.
Standard signal (3 lights) at beginning of each loop plus additional one after lenght of train for waiting area if this does not interfere with the stations - else (or maybe addtionally) have a standard signal after train station if there is enough space for a train up to the chain signal before entering connection.
No signals needed on connection and therefore no mirrored signals needed.
All signals would be on right side of track seen in driving direction.

Thank you. I got it sorted. You were very helpful. I took 100 screenshots but see no way to put them in this thread. Lol. I'm too old for this part. . . .

[Khaylain]

Originally posted by doubleopez:

Thank you. I got it sorted. You were very helpful. I took 100 screenshots but see no way to put them in this thread. Lol. I'm too old for this part. . . .

If you're using the Steam overlay and screenshot thingy it's quite easy: you just make those screenshots public in your screenshot overview in Steam, and then copy the link it gives you and paste that in the comment you want to put the image in.
If you're taking screenshots outside of Steam you'll have to upload them to some place that allows that and sharing them, and paste links to those in the comment you want to have them available in. Don't think they usually show the image if you're using external sources, while Steam itself does.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

Originally posted by doubleopez:

Thank you. I got it sorted. You were very helpful. I took 100 screenshots but see no way to put them in this thread. Lol. I'm too old for this part. . . .

If you're using the Steam overlay and screenshot thingy it's quite easy: you just make those screenshots public in your screenshot overview in Steam, and then copy the link it gives you and paste that in the comment you want to put the image in.
If you're taking screenshots outside of Steam you'll have to upload them to some place that allows that and sharing them, and paste links to those in the comment you want to have them available in. Don't think they usually show the image if you're using external sources, while Steam itself does.

You can upload "art" files (images from non-steam screen shots) to your steam account and post then the same as you do for screen shots.

[Fel]

If you have a large amount of screenshots to share, it is also feasible to upload them in a single imgur and link that, instead of doing them all one by one.

[Khaylain]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by Khaylain:

If you're using the Steam overlay and screenshot thingy it's quite easy: you just make those screenshots public in your screenshot overview in Steam, and then copy the link it gives you and paste that in the comment you want to put the image in.
If you're taking screenshots outside of Steam you'll have to upload them to some place that allows that and sharing them, and paste links to those in the comment you want to have them available in. Don't think they usually show the image if you're using external sources, while Steam itself does.

You can upload "art" files (images from non-steam screen shots) to your steam account and post then the same as you do for screen shots.

Nice to know, I've never done much with screenshots so I just knew some basics.