Do Radars still reveal maps space?

[Cannon Fodder]

I feel like i'm going crazy. I'm 43 hours into a play and I swear the only mapspace that's been revealed has been area that i've physically explored. I've got 47 radar dishes scattered around from outposts to big arrays, and even when i've stopped for a bit to watch I don't think i've seen a single patch open up from them.

[Khaylain]

They do, in a specific "radius" around the radar. Don't remember what the vanilla radars show, but it's something like a "radius" of 3 from the chunk the radar is in that it keeps always visible and a "radius" of 7 from the chunk the radar is in that it intermittently reveals what's in one of those chunks at a time, with the longest time since visibility chunk being revealed first.

[Chindraba]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

They do, in a specific "radius" around the radar. Don't remember what the vanilla radars show, but it's something like a "radius" of 3 from the chunk the radar is in that it keeps always visible and a "radius" of 7 from the chunk the radar is in that it intermittently reveals what's in one of those chunks at a time, with the longest time since visibility chunk being revealed first.

That's the sum of it. If the radar has constant power it will keep a section of the map 7x7 chunks always lit and showing "live" results. It will also scan, slowly, out to a 29x29 chunk square. Chunks not yet revealed will be created and already created chunks will be updated. One radar working on its own will take over 7 hours to complete a full scan and start back with the first one scanned. Ore deposits and the enemy positions will be remembered and shown in map view. Only the 1 currently scanned chunk will have live details, including showing any factory stuff you have or enemies which have moved since the last scan.

Multiple radars work together and only one radar will scan a chunk even if several have it in their range.

[Cannon Fodder]

That's the snippit I was missing, i guess I forgot there is a minimum radius of its unexplored radius. Thanks dudes.

[Fletch]

Best to keep all of the base covered with the "active" radar (7x7) -- it helps the map view so you can see details of every part of your base at any, plus you get the 29x29 "inactive" sweeps to ensure your pollution cloud isn't getting too close to the nests. If your pollution cloud is especially egregious (extending way beyond the "active" radar scans), you may want to have remote radar installations so the cloud is also always covered with the "active" scans too: to keep an eye on biter expansions very close to the cloud that my take a while to get discovered with the "inactive" scans.

[Cannon Fodder]

Originally posted by Fletch:

Best to keep all of the base covered with the "active" radar (7x7) -- it helps the map view so you can see details of every part of your base at any, plus you get the 29x29 "inactive" sweeps to ensure your pollution cloud isn't getting too close to the nests. If your pollution cloud is especially egregious (extending way beyond the "active" radar scans), you may want to have remote radar installations so the cloud is also always covered with the "active" scans too: to keep an eye on biter expansions very close to the cloud that my take a while to get discovered with the "inactive" scans.

Nah i get that, I always have a radar at an outpost so I can see what's going on, but I was wondering how to best see beyond the veil to find more resources. I'm playing on railworld and ♥♥♥♥ is spread out.

[Chindraba]

It'll cost you, 10.5 MW cost you, but you can make a substation surrounded by 35 radar and it will give you a 12.5 minute window where all 29x29 chunks are scanned. That ought to be good enough to keep a decent view on the area around the outpost. If the outpost is bigger than the base 7x7 always-on section you can use internal radars in a solo setup and use one of those 35-dish setups in each corner. They will share some overlap so the time between scans of the chunks will be a bit less depending on how much of the 29x29 of each is overlapped by the other 3. That's a bunch of power and no small amount of pollution if you're still on steam power.

[malogoss]

Once you have artillery range 3 or 4, artillery + remote is always better/faster to reveal map than any radar. Even more so is you are only scanning for resources since you don't need to scan every single chunk.

Firing 100 or 200 shells can take a while if done individually. So rebind the LMB hold drag to pan on map view to RMB instead. That way, on map view, you grab the remote, hold LMB and drag to fire multiple shots. The locals won't like your exploration methods though, it's up to you to handle the unavoidable protests if biters are on.

[Cannon Fodder]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Once you have artillery range 3 or 4, artillery + remote is always better/faster to reveal map than any radar. Even more so is you are only scanning for resources since you don't need to scan every single chunk.

Firing 100 or 200 shells can take a while if done individually. So rebind the LMB hold drag to pan on map view to RMB instead. That way, on map view, you grab the remote, hold LMB and drag to fire multiple shots. The locals won't like your exploration methods though, it's up to you to handle the unavoidable protests if biters are on.

OH YEAH! There's a good idea too!

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Cannon Fodder:

Originally posted by malogoss:

Once you have artillery range 3 or 4, artillery + remote is always better/faster to reveal map than any radar. Even more so is you are only scanning for resources since you don't need to scan every single chunk.

Firing 100 or 200 shells can take a while if done individually. So rebind the LMB hold drag to pan on map view to RMB instead. That way, on map view, you grab the remote, hold LMB and drag to fire multiple shots. The locals won't like your exploration methods though, it's up to you to handle the unavoidable protests if biters are on.

OH YEAH! There's a good idea too!

Once you have spidertrons you can use a remote to send them anywhere you like. They function like a radar and roboport combined plus you can arm them with rockets.

[malogoss]

Spiders are for the hardcore fans of micromanagement, so annoying.

Got to set the exact path. Once that's done, they are slow. Short range view too. Then they get blocked by lake = new path needed, so you have to babysit them at all time or come back to them sitting there, doing nothing. Like they did nothing for the last 5 minute.

Artillery will reveal 1,000 new chunks in a minute. Then you build tracks you'll eventually need anyway, by moving the train, then reveal 1,000 new chunks again, etc.

Can't put them both in the same sentence, spiders and artillery, except maybe as a joke.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Spiders are for the hardcore fans of micromanagement, so annoying.

Got to set the exact path. Once that's done, they are slow. Short range view too. Then they get blocked by lake = new path needed, so you have to babysit them at all time or come back to them sitting there, doing nothing. Like they did nothing for the last 5 minute.

Artillery will reveal 1,000 new chunks in a minute. Then you build tracks you'll eventually need anyway, by moving the train, then reveal 1,000 new chunks again, etc.

Can't put them both in the same sentence, spiders and artillery, except maybe as a joke.

How about remotely controlled spideys that built the artillery bunker? No joke. I send groups of spideys out trailing rails. You can also set way points for them so you don't get caught on lakes. Once you find an iron or copper patch you want to mine they are all ready there, drop your blue print, assign new trains, done. Then off to the next spot you want to mine. Repeat until the spideys need more building material.

I once accidentally sent a group of 10 spideys out to a spot I wanted to mine. When I got back to them they had cut clear swaths through 3 large clusters of worms and spawners. They were intact, the little damage they had taken had been repaired by their construction robots, so I had them build an artillery bunker and defend it until the supply trains arrived.

Those artillery pieces we are talking about had to get there some how, had to get shells delivered to them so you had to lay rail, if you wanted to look beyond automatic range, you had to use a remote anyway. If you use artillery to reveal terrain you still have to go out yourself to build or send a group of spideys while you do something else. Spideys can even drop a radar and a few solar panels and move on, they don't require artillery shells to reveal terrain, and you aren't limited to a single spidey, you can have several, each with their own remote, or a group on follow.

These days I use 4 groups of 10 spideys each one goes in one of the cardinal directions and the artillery bunkers and supply trains carry materials to resupply the spideys. They wait there until I want them or need them to build something else. I use spideys and artillery in concert with each other and get the best of both worlds.

[Cannon Fodder]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Spiders are for the hardcore fans of micromanagement, so annoying.

Yo, don't take this the wrong way but....are you playing the right game?

[malogoss]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

(...)

Why is it all about spidertrons' building and combat abilities now?

The thread topic was map exploration with radar, wasn't it? I just pointed out that with low artillery range researched, there's a better and quicker option than radars.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by Cannon Fodder:

Yo, don't take this the wrong way but....are you playing the right game?

Test it for yourself. Build an army of spiders if you want to and explore with them.

Compare that to artillery outposts built at the end of tracks.

You might be surprised how one requires time and attention while the other doesn't take longer than building rails you'd end up using anyway, even without artillery outposts. You said you were looking for resources, you'll need train to move those somewhere, might as well build tracks leading there.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

(...)

Why is it all about spidertrons' building and combat abilities now?

The thread topic was map exploration with radar, wasn't it? I just pointed out that with low artillery range researched, there's a better and quicker option than radars.

Spidertrons are mobile radar. You can fine tune what they reveal, they can build radar outposts, they can build the tracks you are going to need anyway, can defend themselves while they do so, and once they are there they can build what ever you want built.

When UPS gets tight there's no reason to activate chunks you won't need with a huge artillery barrage.

Faster isn't always better.