Best way to connect pipes to train?

[rikkitikki]

Total noob here. I was wondering, is there a preferred configuration for connecting pipes to train pumps? Can I create a "trident" like splitter (mainline pipe divided into three, one for each o the three inputs on the train)?) Or should each chamber of the fluid wagon get its own discrete pipeline as well as a separate source?

More generally, is there a rule of thumb regarding splitting or joining pipes in terms of how it affects throughput? Do you need to add any pumps along the way if the pipeline is too long? I'm getting wildly different results every game (sometimes nothing seems to flow even though it seems to be hooked up right) so I assume there is some physics at play. I read the wiki about fluid dynamics and my head is spinning from all the math -- and I still couldn't translate it into game terms. Hoping to get a more dumbed down answer here. :)

TIA

[Zeth]

To utilize the full throughput of a pump you should connect it directly to a storage tank. The difference in unloading speed between 1 and 3 pumps is only like a second, so main reason for using more than 1 pump per fluid wagon is either for aesthetic reasons or for extra storage.

You need pumps to ensure a high flow in pipelines. How often depends on the needed throughput. Not sure if it's accurate or not, but you could refer to this chart on the wiki for numbers:
https://wiki.factorio.com/Fluid_system#Pipelines

If you aren't doing it already, use underground pipes in your pipelines. They only count as 2 pipes as far as reducing flow goes.

[AlexMBrennan]

Or should each chamber of the fluid wagon get its own discrete pipeline as well as a separate source?

Kinda, depending on how you schedule your trains: If you summon a train when you have enough liquid to fill one train then you don't want the first wagon's tanks to be full when the last wagon's tanks are empty because that will cause massive loading delays. Putting in pumps to prevent backflow can help prevent this problem (but you obviously don't need to bother with entirely separate production chains).

[Warlord]

I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2065872735
Connecting a pump directly to a tank allows the pump to run at full speed. This isn't as efficient as 3 pumps per wagon, but to do 3 you usually have to have a pump connected directly to a pipe. That runs so much slower that 2 pumps and 2 tanks is like 20x faster.

If I really wanted to optimize, I could add a third pump/tank combo on the opposite side for the middle connection, but this method fills the wagon (or empties it) in seconds-flat, Not much of a point.

And yes, having a pump go into the central pipe which splits into the tanks is not the most optimal, but it doesn't much matter here since the liquid going in is so low I don't need to optimize tank filling. Only train loading.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Warlord:

I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2065872735
Connecting a pump directly to a tank allows the pump to run at full speed. This isn't as efficient as 3 pumps per wagon, but to do 3 you usually have to have a pump connected directly to a pipe. That runs so much slower that 2 pumps and 2 tanks is like 20x faster.

If I really wanted to optimize, I could add a third pump/tank combo on the opposite side for the middle connection, but this method fills the wagon (or empties it) in seconds-flat, Not much of a point.

And yes, having a pump go into the central pipe which splits into the tanks is not the most optimal, but it doesn't much matter here since the liquid going in is so low I don't need to optimize tank filling. Only train loading.

Correction, to do 3, you have to have tanks on both sides of the train.

[Manu]

Originally posted by Warlord:

I do this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2065872735
Connecting a pump directly to a tank allows the pump to run at full speed. This isn't as efficient as 3 pumps per wagon, but to do 3 you usually have to have a pump connected directly to a pipe. That runs so much slower that 2 pumps and 2 tanks is like 20x faster.

If I really wanted to optimize, I could add a third pump/tank combo on the opposite side for the middle connection, but this method fills the wagon (or empties it) in seconds-flat, Not much of a point.

And yes, having a pump go into the central pipe which splits into the tanks is not the most optimal, but it doesn't much matter here since the liquid going in is so low I don't need to optimize tank filling. Only train loading.

Loved your design, will try it

[Manu]

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Correction, to do 3, you have to have tanks on both sides of the train.

No you don't. 4 tanks align well with 3 pipes into 3 wagons
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2066934416

[Fel]

The "3" meant 3 pumps per wagon like this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2066947892
(and yes, I over-use pumps to feed the tanks, that's a habbit I have developped to prevent back-flow and you probably don't need all of those)

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Fel:

The "3" meant 3 pumps per wagon like this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2066947892
(and yes, I over-use pumps to feed the tanks, that's a habbit I have developped to prevent back-flow and you probably don't need all of those)

Yes, that is exactly what I meant, thank you.

Originally posted by Joe78man:

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Correction, to do 3, you have to have tanks on both sides of the train.

No you don't. 4 tanks align well with 3 pipes into 3 wagons
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2066934416

The point was to get 3 pumps per wagon, not 3 pumps per train.

[Warlord]

Originally posted by CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate:

Correction, to do 3, you have to have tanks on both sides of the train.

Umm, I thought I said that, but I suppose I was unclear. I started by saying:

Originally posted by Warlord:

Connecting a pump directly to a tank allows the pump to run at full speed. This isn't as efficient as 3 pumps per wagon, but to do 3 you usually have to have a pump connected directly to a pipe. That runs so much slower that 2 pumps and 2 tanks is like 20x faster.

I meant that to say I could do 3 pumps ON ONE SIDE, but it would require the use of pipe>pump for at least one of the pumps on that side, if not all of them. Or would be horribly off-center.
Followed by:

Originally posted by Warlord:

If I really wanted to optimize, I could add a third pump/tank combo on the opposite side for the middle connection, but this method fills the wagon (or empties it) in seconds-flat, Not much of a point.

To indicate I could do a third tank>pump on one wagon by doing one on the other side.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough initially. 2 pumps is not only fast enough for almost every situation, but it looks nice and symmetrical. Simple too.

[Fel]

Plus it takes quite a bit less space when you load/unload only on one side, not a big deal when doing a single station but when you are doing an unloading site with many stations it can quickly pile up.

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Fel:

Plus it takes quite a bit less space when you load/unload only on one side, not a big deal when doing a single station but when you are doing an unloading site with many stations it can quickly pile up.

Honestly, with the throughput of a 3 pump system, I've never needed more than one train station to unload oil until a late game oil refinery with a 4 wagon train. All you have to do is give a place for your oil trains to queue up. They unload so fast that there's no issues. You'll eventually find they queue up simply because they can't unload oil because there isn't room as you're not refining it fast enough.

Don't think of just increasing production though, the reason why I say until late game is because this will only last until the oil wells dry up, and then even with maximum speed overclocking, you're not likely to see more than a trickle. At this point a single oil train can handle all of your old oil wells, and all the other oil trains can be relegated to the new farther out oil wells.

It's only once you have enough dried up oil wells that you can run trains constantly that you need a second station that I would agree with you that the space matters. That is late game. Until then, don't be afraid to unload both sides.

[Fel]

I mostly play modded so there are usually a lot more liquids that can be transported via trains and the space saved at the cost of 1/3 slower unloading is usually worth it.

This is especially true since as you pointed out you tend to end up with filled tanks as your bottleneck so faster unloading doesn't add all that much to the equation.

Either way the best part is that both ways are very easy to lay down, and switching between them barely takes any effort.

(of course if you don't need the insane speed you can go for the good old pipes for a smaller footprint directly at the station as well)

[CPT Chthonbeard the Pirate]

Originally posted by Fel:

I mostly play modded so there are usually a lot more liquids that can be transported via trains and the space saved at the cost of 1/3 slower unloading is usually worth it.

This is especially true since as you pointed out you tend to end up with filled tanks as your bottleneck so faster unloading doesn't add all that much to the equation.

Either way the best part is that both ways are very easy to lay down, and switching between them barely takes any effort.

(of course if you don't need the insane speed you can go for the good old pipes for a smaller footprint directly at the station as well)

The majority of the time my oil trains spend is enroute to a station, or waiting for a station to have supply ready in general. Demand is usually available. I tend to wire up my stations so they activate or deactivate if supply or demand is able to accommodate a train, so they don't sit and occupy a station when another train would want to arrive and load/unload there. My love of seeing an oil train load or unload instantly is mostly because of the irritation of a cargo train spending most of it's time loading or unloading at a station, instead of moving, right up until max stack inserter tech. It just takes so long, so I get into a habit of just speeding all station transactions up as fast as possible.

The one thing I wish that the train scheduling would allow is an optional condition, "If the next step can be fulfilled now, skip this step. If not, move to this destination and wait until the next step can be fulfilled." Instead, I have to insert a waiting area manually that they route to and pass through manually every time before entering the loading/unloading area. It becomes non-optional.

Also, I play modded too. I'm currently playing on Ribbon Maze where I'm further restricted on space. Train stops are difficult, but also very necessary.

[Z0MBE]

my fave way is to use the bucket dumping with bots using the mod: darkstar utilities - I can dump or load insanely fast, im sure it works in vanilla but rather late game for more useability