SPOILAGE will spoil my fun

[cfteague2]

HI all, just read the FFF today.

I have to say, the spoilage mechanic looks interesting for some other people

BUT for me, I HATE IT. I want to be clear, it is an UN-FUN idea. Please, Please, Please, make it configurable so that I can control the spoilage timer to something ludicrious (not days, centuries!)


First, I play factorio at a snails pace compared to most players. In vanilla factorio, my "speedrun" is about 10 weeks, to launch a rocket.

It sounds like the spoilage mechanic will basically punish casual players, while being a near-meaningless speed bump for hardcore players. Which then makes me think that the devs will tune it to make it happen super-fast, so that the hard core players experience the mechanic. but that would totally wreck it for slow, casual players who build "just barely good enough" factories.


Second, the entire concept is anti-gaming. I play games for a feeling of progression, a feeling of accomplishment. For example, in games, you do something, and you build up your strength, or your agility, etc. In real life, you need to practice regularly, or your abilities decay. But in games, once you gain something, you never lose it. You dont grow old and die in games. Your stuff doesnt vanish in games.

To me, this is an important part of the gaming fantasy, and the spoilage mechanic being discussed, is directly contrary to it.


I respect that my view is probably a minority. I dont want the devs to give up on the idea. I just want to be able turn it off on my game, or at least have some kind of slider where I can reduce its impact so that the spoilage happens at a glacial pace.

Thank you
-CFTeague2

[Fel]

We definitely agree on that, if the expansion was just "more of the same" it would probably be a pass for me.

[Weruat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Fel:

We definitely agree on that, if the expansion was just "more of the same" it would probably be a pass for me.

Initially I was worried with the expac but honestly seeing how they want to change it so not every problem has the same solution really makes me excited. I think it's good the devs are focusing more on how to mix up the game without just throwing in a bunch of extra intermediates and end products that feel like the same, since it actually mixes up the gameplay loop while still being the same game.

[Porky]

It'll be an interesting read, and surely will develope further- but just seeing the word triggers me. A global 10%-80% loss of all items is what's going to pop into the average persons head.

Temperature control for chemistry maybe. To produce certain items you have to raise or lower the ambient temperature of a dry good / chemical or production facility. more use for boilers or refrigeration or hell- throw in some eltromagnetic fields or microwave radiation- check out production in ONI. Ammonia has to be produced ro cool tanker cars to transport sulphuric acid or maybe get some liquid nitrogen up in here. I could get into that...

Cave people figured out how to use holes in the ground 10,000 years ago to prevent spoilage. If a multiple planet colonizing super race of amazing construction outfit designers can't figure out how to keep their lean cuisines and bananas preserved- what hope is there.

There are some super talented factorio players and mega base builders, and.i reslly.enjoy watching their content and know they love a challenge.I share a sentiment similar to what I believe the OP is expressing. Spoilage and clowns frighten us.

Some of us are casual and want to build, progress, figure things out at our own enjoyable pace and not be harrased by an arbitrary resource decay timer. Just because we're casual gamers doesn't make us newbies.

[Maltsi]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Porky:

It'll be an interesting read, and surely will develope further- but just seeing the word triggers me. A global 10%-80% loss of all items is what's going to pop into the average persons head.

Temperature control for chemistry maybe. To produce certain items you have to raise or lower the ambient temperature of a dry good / chemical or production facility. more use for boilers or refrigeration or hell- throw in some eltromagnetic fields or microwave radiation- check out production in ONI. Ammonia has to be produced ro cool tanker cars to transport sulphuric acid or maybe get some liquid nitrogen up in here. I could get into that...

Cave people figured out how to use holes in the ground 10,000 years ago to prevent spoilage. If a multiple planet colonizing super race of amazing construction outfit designers can't figure out how to keep their lean cuisines and bananas preserved- what hope is there.

There are some super talented factorio players and mega base builders, and.i reslly.enjoy watching their content and know they love a challenge.I share a sentiment similar to what I believe the OP is expressing. Spoilage and clowns frighten us.

Some of us are casual and want to build, progress, figure things out at our own enjoyable pace and not be harrased by an arbitrary resource decay timer. Just because we're casual gamers doesn't make us newbies.

But heres the thing, how is it damaging your progress? they only spoil if you don't use them, and if you don't use them then you are not progressing in the first place. Not to mention the spoiling times which they mentioned are anywhere between 2 hours and a lot longer.

And since the timer is so long, it could be treated like it never existed. Which makes the whole system kinda pointless now that i think about it.

[Hurkyl]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Porky:

Some of us are casual and want to build, progress, figure things out at our own enjoyable pace and not be harrased by an arbitrary resource decay timer. Just because we're casual gamers doesn't make us newbies.

From how it sounds, your worries are misplaced. Spoilage isn't a pressure to make you play fast -- you will still be able to play at as slow a pace as you like.

What spoilage is doing is making you design a factory with shorter transport times and smaller buffers -- and possibly filtering to remove whatever waste does accumulate.

The resources are renewable. You replant them and keep harvesting fresh batches of fruit. You can take as long as you like to design the factory to process them -- once it's in place (and you clean up any spoilage that took place while waiting) you're processing fresh materials no problem.

[Weruat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Hurkyl:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Porky:

Some of us are casual and want to build, progress, figure things out at our own enjoyable pace and not be harrased by an arbitrary resource decay timer. Just because we're casual gamers doesn't make us newbies.

From how it sounds, your worries are misplaced. Spoilage isn't a pressure to make you play fast -- you will still be able to play at as slow a pace as you like.

What spoilage is doing is making you design a factory with shorter transport times and smaller buffers -- and possibly filtering to remove whatever waste does accumulate.

The resources are renewable. You replant them and keep harvesting fresh batches of fruit. You can take as long as you like to design the factory to process them -- once it's in place (and you clean up any spoilage that took place while waiting) you're processing fresh materials no problem.

Exactly this, it's less a time problem and more an optimization of production and logistics problem. Limiting the amount of time objects spend on belts and preventing them from not being used, but since you don't really run out of the resources, the Spoil timer is more about building the base right to utilize resources fast, but no pressure on you.

[Porky]

It's an interesting concept and for a bio themed planet makes sense. Rot / contamination =s garbage or decontaminate / make alternative products or start over and build more efficiently makes sense. The artwork is beautiful. I got a couple hundred hours to log in vanilla- so we'll see how it plays out :) I look forward to what they do.

The great thing about sandboxes is their adjustable nature. I want to build my factory right now but I'm checking individual Cheetos for spoilage because i was triggered. Advocating for a newbie timer- I can spend 2 hours trying to remember what i was doing for the last 2 hours.

Hope everyone is enjoying their time.MOIST

[malogoss]

OP is kind of interesting. If you read it.

I see it this way. Many new players will put everything in chests. They just can't stand seeing iron plates (or a mix of 5-6 random items ) sitting at the end of a belt. So they store everything in chests.

Say such a new player makes it to Gleba, where things spoil. They'll learn real fast that all those chests are a nuisance. And once they make things run smoothly without chests, they'll know other planets also don't need a billion chests for storage.

It's close to what Lazy Bastard does, when a newish player decides to get that achievement. You can learn something from doing it.

I personally like that things will spoil. It'll slightly change the way I build things, which is interesting to me. I tend to like having a bit more input ingredients coming in on belts than what is actually needed, for most builds. Spoilage will turn things around, it'll be about overbuilding all builds compared to the amount of ingredients coming in. And having ways to dispose of near spoiled ingredients that I don't want to use.

I'm looking forward to the other 2 new planets they announced so far but this one, if you take the new items unlocked by planets out of the equation, is clearly the most interesting planet for me.

Only a few more months, patience, we're getting there.

[knighttemplar1960]

Some of this depends on which products spoil quickly. I'm hoping the more processed an item is the longer it takes to spoil (the reverse would make it much harder to use this mechanic.)

If the fruit spoils in 2 minutes mid products last longer and the science packs last 2 hours then its not a problem unless you usually rely on a base with huge buffers.

What I'm thinking right now from just this FFF is the only thing you may want to have a stock of on this planet is the science packs. The key here might be to leave the fruit in the ground until you need it and build a huge anti-pyramid base that is designed for burst production and direct inserts as much as possible so that the products are used immediately instead of stored.

Nauvis needs a shipment of bio-science packs. That turns on the fruit pickers and replants, the fruit is immediately processed down a smaller chain for intermediate products, the intermediate products are immediately processed into end products, that are immediately processed into bio-science packs that are loaded into a rocket, sent to a small and fast space platform designed to travel to Nauvis quickly where those packs are used before they can spoil.

Then the entire planet sits idle until Nauvis needs another shipment of bio-science packs.

You could have 4 anti-pyramid processing set ups that end at the rocket launch facility that gives little to no time for products to spoil.

I can see a way to potentially do this but this will have to be your most efficient and balanced planet.

[Geirfinna Lieselotte]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Necronium:

not even a day but Spoilage shows already how great mechanic it is. It divides players into those that left "tutorial" and those that stay newbies. Factorio cant stay just A+B ->C. I cant understand where problem with items that spoils is? It forces you to build efficently so that product retains most of it freshness. You get literally infinite ingridients that you have process so what if some of them get spoiled? Just reuse whats left

Perhaps the problem is in your sentence : "it forces you to".
Factorio has never been a game of being forced to do something. You can build a rocket without trains, without bots, without biters, without belts, without almost everything you want.

Spoilage wouldn't be a problem for me, but just because I'm not affected by something doesn't mean I shouldn't care.
I don't think forcing players to do something is the way to go. Given enough time, everyone should be able to complete the game regardless of the efficiency of their factory. It's about being able to solve a problem, not being forced to.

[malogoss]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Porky:

Please no. Just no.
If yes, the please make it toggelable like cliffs so we can just disable it.

I probably would not have just purchased the game if spoilage were a thing that couldn't be disabled.
(...)

You already bought Space Age?! Tell me where, I want it too!

[Ferox_Stormdragon]

hehe, Pyanadon, Earendel and Raiguard are going to have a lot of fun implementing these new mechanics and resources into their mods, lol.

come to think of it Py has a lot of organic resources both flora and fauna, hehe.

[jamiechi]

I agree with the OP.

[Weruat]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ferox_Stormdragon:

hehe, Pyanadon, Earendel and Raiguard are going to have a lot of fun implementing these new mechanics and resources into their mods, lol.

come to think of it Py has a lot of organic resources both flora and fauna, hehe.

Py is already thinking of ways to torture us mere mortals

[Garatgh Deloi]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από cfteague2:

Second, the entire concept is anti-gaming. I play games for a feeling of progression, a feeling of accomplishment. For example, in games, you do something, and you build up your strength, or your agility, etc. In real life, you need to practice regularly, or your abilities decay. But in games, once you gain something, you never lose it. You dont grow old and die in games. Your stuff doesnt vanish in games.

Never enjoyed a rogue like i hear :P Try it sometimes, the risk of losing hours of work can really gets your heart pounding.