Factorio

Factorio

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Zusuper Mar 26, 2024 @ 8:42am
Endless Play?
Are the resources limited and did I need to start a new Savegame when they release a new update?
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Showing 1-15 of 18 comments
Shurenai Mar 26, 2024 @ 8:57am 
3
The resources are, technically speaking, limited. But, they're so overwhelmingly plentiful even on the default setting that you will never run out in your lifetime... Or your child's lifetime. Or your grandchild's lifetime, Or your 40th generations lifetime. Or your 100th generation of decendants.

Resources are funtionally 'Finite' only in a conceptual sense unless you drastically lower the resource values and/or restrict the map limits from the default 'unlimited' which is actually 2 million tiles in each direction from spawn, creating a total area of 4 trillion (yes, TRILLION) mappable tiles.

To put it in perspective, Before productivity and on default richness and spawning values, therre is around 20~ quadrillion iron/copper/coal, ~8 quadrillion stone/uranium, a trillion oil wells.

50,000 science per minute is close to the theoretical maximum one could achieve before losing out on UPS (update ticks per second; if this goes below 60, the simulation itself slows down; essentially creating a 'soft' cap in base size that can't be bypassed). Just looking at iron for convenience sake since it's the highest consumption currently, You need 8,143,417 iron a minute to maintain 50k spm. To run through 20 quadrillion iron (again, no productivity) at that pace would take 2,455,971,492.07 minutes.

That's 40,932,858.2011 hours. Or 1,705,535.75838 days.

....Or 4672.7 Years.

So, In short, You will almost literally never run out of materials even though they are, technically, limited.


As for whether you need a new save game for a new update, Generally speaking no. Even the coming expansion should allow existing saves to move forward, albeit with some leg work on your part fixing any parts of your factory affected by things such as recipe changes.
The_Mell Mar 26, 2024 @ 9:16am 
To give a shorter and easier answer:
The map is generated and in theory endless.
Patches of resources come along and usually grow in size the farer away from your starting area.
Additionally you can ramp up options in map generation before starting.
Part of the game is to go out and secure new resources.
Check out this screenshot of me:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3153813384

Patches:
Developers are very keen on keeping savegames playable - i cannot remember any problems with this.
Emaulligu Mar 26, 2024 @ 9:38am 
Resources are theoretically limited but as said above the limit is so high you might as well consider them to be illimited from a practical standpoint.
The first few ore patches near your starting base will run out and force you to expand, but that's part of the normal gameplay loop. The further out you go, the richer the patches become until eventually they outdo your needs.
Any savegame can be an endless savegame as you build and improve your base until you build a megabase, though you will probably start over a few times by yourself if you want to do things better.

Saves should be forward-compatible, but there's a very big (paid) expansion coming... eventually, that will add a lot of content, space travel and new planets with their own resources. That big update will also bring in a ton of QoL and new features for free, which may have you redo some of your factory. Train networks will need to be redone if I remember the dedicated blogpost correctly.

Factorio has a free demo on the store page if you want to give it a shot.
Last edited by Emaulligu; Mar 26, 2024 @ 9:39am
Vyndicu Mar 26, 2024 @ 9:46am 
Originally posted by Zusuper:
Are the resources limited and did I need to start a new Savegame when they release a new update?

Others have yet to mention that the more you explore and grow your factory, the more computing power you will need.

It becomes difficult to continue without optimizing your factory (fewer machines), biters (killing them to prevent pathfinding calculations), and other tricks to optimization.


You will hit this PC hardware limitation long before the map limitation.
Brainfart Mar 26, 2024 @ 10:01am 
Once the expansion comes out, you should make a new world because they changed how the terrain generation works. I am not quite sure what exactly happens, but either your world will continue using to old terrain generation OR newly generated chunks will be generated with the new world gen, which would mean sudden changes in terrain, which would be quite ugly.
Chindraba Mar 26, 2024 @ 2:43pm 
Resources are already well covered, so.. Patches.

Every save file includes a value saying which version of the game created it, which can change if you load an older game into a newer version and then save it as the save, even if it uses the same file name, was now created by the newer game.

This data is used for, among many things, preventing you from loading an ancient, say 0.16, map into a really new version, such as the current 1.1.104. You can still load the game, in stages. I don't know the exact versions used, but the idea is to load it into 0.18 and save it. the 0.18 version of the game would have special scripts to convert changed things from 0.16 to 0.18. Repeat that with 1.0 and then 1.1. The key is that the special scripts to "read" a 0.16 save are not in 1.1 or 1.1, and any scripts to read 0.18 would be 1.0 but not 1.1. I'm not sure if the 1.0 to 1.1 step is needed or not, but any 1.1.2 (or whatever the oldest version is) is still a 1.1 map and loads unchanged into 1.1.104.

Because of the new rails they have already said there will be some scripts to handle loading a 1.1 save into the 2.0 game. I expect that those scripts will also set some value to prevent the terrain from changing to match the new map gen process. The 2.0 version will have to have the 1.1 gen process in it or it couldn't read the 1.1 maps anyway, so it can continue to use that process to load any maps from 1.1, even if other things, like the rails, are converted to 2.0. The FFF about the new rails also said that in some future version the ability to load a 1.1 game with rails would be removed.

As of last report, subject to change as always with the development still happening, you would be able to load a 1.1 save, and start playing even Space Age in full.

Originally posted by FFF #373:
This implies that technically, you could just take your vanilla base, activate the expansion, and continue playing. But the best way to experience it will be to play with Space Age from start to finish.

What happens after 2.0 becomes 2.0.10, or 2.1, is probably less forgiving, but you'll have time, and warning, to deal with that later.
Silvver Mar 27, 2024 @ 3:49pm 
Originally posted by The_Mell:
The map is generated and in theory endless.

No, it's not.
The maximum size of the map is a square 2 million tiles on each side, a total of 4 trillion tiles. You start right in the middle, so you are 1 million tiles away from the edge.

And you can reach the end of the map, just like DoshDoshington did.
AlexMBrennan Mar 27, 2024 @ 5:42pm 
Patches:
Developers are very keen on keeping savegames playable - i cannot remember any problems with this.
Yes, you will probably be able to load your old maps without the game crashing but if you want to keep playing is another question entirely - recipes change may force you to rebuild your factories, railway changes may force you to redo your entire railway infrastructure, etc. It might just be easier to start over from scratch.

Could you keep playing? Yes. Do most people keep playing? I doubt it.
Last edited by AlexMBrennan; Mar 27, 2024 @ 5:43pm
Chindraba Mar 27, 2024 @ 7:05pm 
Originally posted by Silvver:
Originally posted by The_Mell:
The map is generated and in theory endless.

No, it's not.
The maximum size of the map is a square 2 million tiles on each side, a total of 4 trillion tiles. You start right in the middle, so you are 1 million tiles away from the edge.

And you can reach the end of the map, just like DoshDoshington did.

Well, DoshDoshington did not reach the end of the map, he reached the edge in one direction. There is just as much headed the other way. Then make 1100 copies of that going up. And another 1100 copies of that going down. Finally 13 more copies somewhere. Then he would have reached the end of the map; a four trillion tiles of it. All Doshington did was reveal a small percentage of the map. Considering the small amount used by the base to building as mathematically insignificant, his train tunnel to the edge revealed a mere 1.13 tiles of every ten million on the map, a mere 0.0000000113% of the tiles, of the map.

So, while not truly infinite, and with some theoretical limit, it is still practically infinite as there is no way, with current technology, to reveal the whole thing. The closing remarks about the memory size and file size, for his tiny project means that to run the game would require 7 quettabytes of diskspace which is 43 million times the estimated world-wide disk storage capacity, and 123 exabytes of RAM. The world's computer power collected into one resource could not 'play' the entire map. For me that's close enough to infinite.
Vineheart01 Mar 27, 2024 @ 7:33pm 
pretty much every game that generates as it goes and 'in theory is endless' has an end at some point. Either through hardware limitations or the code just stops at some point.
Factorio is one such game where it just ends eventually but like others have said it so ridiculously huge i'd be surprised if someone completely cleaned out a 5m train ride circle of resources, let alone 3 freaking hours (from the center) to the edge lol.
SiEgE Mar 28, 2024 @ 1:47am 
Originally posted by Zusuper:
Are the resources limited ... ?
It is the question of kind "can I dig out every block in Minecraft?". Yes, yes you can. Good luck with that, though.
Originally posted by Zusuper:
did I need to start a new Savegame when they release a new update?
No. You don't have to. This game didn't have any save breaking updates so far. If you have doubts - just back it up, then launch.
Silvver Mar 29, 2024 @ 1:31pm 
Originally posted by Chindraba:
Well, DoshDoshington did not reach the end of the map, he reached the edge in one direction.

You lost me here. End of the map is it's edge. It's the same thing.
And nobody said anything about revealing the whole map.

My point was that "The map is generated and in theory endless." was saying untrue facts about the game. It should have been something like "The map is pretty big, so big in fact that you can treat it as endless"
Zaflis Mar 30, 2024 @ 7:20pm 
I think the word you were after is "practical". The world is practically infinite, but theoretically not.

But because mining large area will cost a lot of UPS it's wiser to start new game with richest possible ore veins at the starting area.

Also the technologies will change and world generation algorithm will change too, so you should start a new game after 2.0 regardless.
Last edited by Zaflis; Mar 30, 2024 @ 7:22pm
brian_va Mar 30, 2024 @ 7:30pm 
Originally posted by Zaflis:
But because mining large area will cost a lot of UPS it's wiser to start new game with richest possible ore veins at the starting area.

i regret not doing that on my current save; i built up a starter base to get started on the infinite researches, then marched due south until the patches were in the the hundreds of millions. chunk gen isn't taking a ton of update time, but its time that could have been better utilized.
TSP Mar 31, 2024 @ 8:06am 
Originally posted by brian_va:
Originally posted by Zaflis:
But because mining large area will cost a lot of UPS it's wiser to start new game with richest possible ore veins at the starting area.

i regret not doing that on my current save; i built up a starter base to get started on the infinite researches, then marched due south until the patches were in the the hundreds of millions. chunk gen isn't taking a ton of update time, but its time that could have been better utilized.
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/DeleteEmptyChunks
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Date Posted: Mar 26, 2024 @ 8:42am
Posts: 18