Blueprint for logistics-switching power capacitor?

[Edward Howton]

I don't even know what to call this besides a capacitor. I'm trying to plan ahead and I need to know if/how it's possible to have, for example, an accumulator bank that only outputs power when it is fully charged and then only stocks power until it's full again once it empties out.

As in, theoretically, being able to power an entire factory off of a single solar panel that charges batteries. There would be a ridiculously long period with all the machinery off, of course, but everything would run at full power until the batteries run dry and everything would stay off until they're full again. Sort of burst-mode factory.

I imagine it's possible to make an interruptor using the power switch, but the combinators and wiring is too arcane for me to figure out, and I'd like something a bit more useful than manually removing the power line between power being generated and the rest of the factory myself. It must be possible, right? If the batteries are full, turn factory on. If the batteries are empty, don't output power beyond this connection. I just have no idea how it could be done, or even what you'd call it.

[Нагризолич]

If you recharge them with coal power, this makes no sense, because factorio doesn't have steam engine load-dependent efficiency and storing that energy in unburnt coal is simply easier. If you're combining your coal power with solar, then you rather need a switch for coal power. You don't need combinators for it, just attach any main grid accumulator to a switch and enable it when it goes below certain amount, like 10% maybe.

[knighttemplar1960]

Not exactly sure what you are trying to do specifically but it sounds like you want an RS latch.

Here is a tutorial on combinators and the circuit network.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9TopXCFk1g
This is more advanced features using combinators. The RS latch example is at the 32:00 mark but I recommend watching the entire thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtN3ewXfZHM

[malogoss]

You'd need to fully isolate power production and storage from the rest of the grid. The only link between that power and the rest of your base would be a power switch with a SR latch.

The switch would turn on once A = 100 (accumulator full), that would be your S condition.

The switch would be off once A = 0, that would be the R condition.

Here's a short but very good tutorial about building that SR latch. From 3:00 to 4:30 is a section you should pay high attention to.

https://youtu.be/Wm4jiFDo0Lk?si=SknPQB9KuQu14RBQ

[Edward Howton]

Originally posted by malogoss:

You'd need to fully isolate power production and storage from the rest of the grid. The only link between that power and the rest of your base would be a power switch with a SR latch.

This is exactly what I needed. I should be able to figure out how to wire it myself, just need to stick the accumulator next to the solar panel instead of on the opposite side.

I'm in the middle of my first attempt at Space Exploration. I suspect my first landing on another planet won't work out very well for me, so I figure if I can make a big battery bank that trickle-charges to full I could get everything running at full speed in bursts instead of having extremely slow machines eating up all the power and nothing getting done. I figured this would be easier than trying to send fuel to a space platform. I suspect there isn't very much coal to mine in orbit.

Thanks.

[rdbury]

Originally posted by malogoss:

...
Here's a short but very good tutorial about building that SR latch. From 3:00 to 4:30 is a section you should pay high attention to.

https://youtu.be/Wm4jiFDo0Lk?si=SknPQB9KuQu14RBQ

Helpful. The guy has a German accent you can cut with a knife, but his English is better than my German so no complaints.

[Edward Howton]

SR Latch works like a charm! Found a convenient blueprint online to make the wiring easier, but it works exactly as intended. Solar panel next to the battery charges it up. Once the battery (or battery bank) is fully-charged, it turns on the power switch and the radar next to it runs at full strength. When the battery is drained, the radar shuts back off again.

Best of all, batteries send out a signal that goes up to 100, which is the percentage of charge in them. I suppose I could glitch-proof it by using 99% and 1% instead of 100% and 0% but this is fine. I can now run an entire factory off of a single solar panel! With a lot of dead time between charges, but I don't mind that.

[malogoss]

Nice

[Нагризолич]

You actually don't really need and SR latch if you can deal with power production flicking back and forth around a threshold, but knowing what it is, along with a timer and a memory cell is valuable for your future in SE.

[malogoss]

- Can you help me, how should I eat this soup?
- May I suggest using a spoon, it'll work.

(third guy walks in the room)
- Aktchually, you don't really need a spoon, eat something else.

Thanks buddy.

[Нагризолич]

Originally posted by malogoss:

- Can you help me, how should I eat this soup?
- May I suggest using a spoon, it'll work.

(third guy walks in the room)
- Aktchually, you don't really need a spoon, eat something else.

Thanks buddy.

You have Dunning-Kruger syndrome. You're welcome.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Нагризолич:

Originally posted by malogoss:

- Can you help me, how should I eat this soup?
- May I suggest using a spoon, it'll work.

(third guy walks in the room)
- Aktchually, you don't really need a spoon, eat something else.

Thanks buddy.

You have Dunning-Kruger syndrome. You're welcome.

Take a moment to read what the OP actually wants to do.

[PunCrathod]

If you have solar charging batteries then the sr latch while nice to learn how to use is completely unnecessary. A factory that is 100% on 10% of the time makes the exact same amount of stuff as a factory that is 10% on 100% of the time. If you are doing it to learn then it is as good of a way as any. And if you are doing it for the meme factory that operates in bursts then an sr latch is a way to go and it will probably look epic. Just be aware that you do not get any advantage with this setup over the traditional all solar and batteries in the same grid as the factory all the time setup.

Also if in the future you have more solar panels that it takes to run your entire factory but not enough batteries to last trough the night then you are actually going to waste energy with this kind of setup that you would be able to use without the power switch. In the morning the batteries will charge faster and once full any energy the factory can not use is wasted. However if you only use the energy the factory cant use to charge the batteries it will take longer until you hit the cap thus wasting less energy.

And once you have enough batteries and solar this sr latch setup becomes entirely redundant as it will just stick to the on position and never turn off.

This is not a spoon for a soup but a boston dynamics programmable robot arm that you programmed to scoop the soup from the bowl into the spoon.

Also I have noticed that this community has some kind of fetish for the sr latch and will suggest it to solve any problem involving circuits even when a simpler and easier solution exists. I mean it is a good generic solution that works for a lot of situations but once you really learn how to use circuits you almost never need it.

For this case you could just take a wire from an accumulator to a power switch and a decider combinator. Set both the switch and the combinator to have the same on condition(A>=100). Set the decider combinator to output 1 to A. Then from the decider combinator output hook a wire into the input of an arithmetic combinator. Set the arithmetic combinator to multiply the A by 99(this number is how much the accumulator charge needs to drop for the switch to turn off) and output A. Then hook the output of the arithmetic combinator to the power switch. Use only one color of wire. No sr latch needed.

edit: fixed a typo someone pointed out that was kind of important to make the circuit work.

[Edward Howton]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

A factory that is 100% on 10% of the time makes the exact same amount of stuff as a factory that is 10% on 100%

Sort of yes but also not really. In theory that's true, but in practice it gets more complicated. I've had trouble balancing the core mining outputs and had my factory go unpowered overnight. My problem was roboports. They eat all the power at lower production levels and completely disabled everything else. With the power switch, I dropped a roboport and it was slowy charging up even off a single battery and solar panel.

But you're probably right and it's absolutely unnecessary to do this if I have enough solar panels and batteries. Doesn't matter! I wanted to do something silly and I'm not exactly trying to win the Factorio Award For Most Optimized 50Bajillion Science Per Minute trophy.

Honestly I can hardly make sense of SE at all. I got stuck at the first space science packs until I cheated myself a space elevator to ferry goods back and forth to orbit, and even that's still barely working. Even science pack blueprints from factorioprints are all messed up and nonfunctional. So I'm in silly fun mode now, and I really hate how things break in low power operations.

Now I need to figure out a way to mine, process, and send cryonite using machines that require processed cryonite to process, because I don't understand how SE works. My single solar panel and battery are working for the initial roboport and radar.

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by Edward Howton:

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

A factory that is 100% on 10% of the time makes the exact same amount of stuff as a factory that is 10% on 100%

Sort of yes but also not really. In theory that's true, but in practice it gets more complicated. I've had trouble balancing the core mining outputs and had my factory go unpowered overnight. My problem was roboports. They eat all the power at lower production levels and completely disabled everything else. With the power switch, I dropped a roboport and it was slowy charging up even off a single battery and solar panel.

Oh right. If idle drain is a significant percentage of the peak output of the power generation then you can get into a situation where accumulator bursts can actually increase your productivity. I guess having the flu made me not even consider that aspect. But even if that is the case then even with accumulator bursts making anything useful with the factory is going to take so long it's probably not worth it. Tough if you put a couple more solar panels in it might be enough to bootstrap a factory into motion.

Originally posted by Edward Howton:

But you're probably right and it's absolutely unnecessary to do this if I have enough solar panels and batteries. Doesn't matter! I wanted to do something silly and I'm not exactly trying to win the Factorio Award For Most Optimized 50Bajillion Science Per Minute trophy.

A perfectly valid stance. The most important thing when consuming entertainment is to have fun. Or if you are not having fun then it should at least enable having fun later. Otherwise what's the point. Well I guess you could be just wasting time on purpose to make time pass faster so you get to the next fun thing. Also while I don't know about others I at least consider learning fun and making something you have not made before usually helps you learn something.

The only wrong way to play video games is to cheat in a professional setting. Well I guess griefing can often be considered a wrong way to play but there are games where there are situations where it is acceptable.

[malogoss]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

Also I have noticed that this community has some kind of fetish for the sr latch and will suggest it to solve any problem involving circuits even when a simpler and easier solution exists. I mean it is a good generic solution that works for a lot of situations but once you really learn how to use circuits you almost never need it.

For this case you could just take a wire from an accumulator to a power switch and a decider combinator. Set both the switch and the combinator to have the same on condition(A=100). Set the decider combinator to output 1 to A. Then from the decider combinator output hook a wire into the input of an arithmetic combinator. Set the arithmetic combinator to multiply the A by 99(this number is how much the accumulator charge needs to drop for the switch to turn off) and output A. Then hook the output of the arithmetic combinator to the power switch. Use only one color of wire. No sr latch needed.

Makes fun of SR Latch fetish.
Explains how to build exactly that, a SR latch. One that wouldn't work. (A>=100, not A=100)