Am I the only one who doesn't like the rail bridges?

[Skorj]

Perhaps I'm the only one who doesn't like the rail bridges, but to me they're so game-y and bring Factorio rail even farther from RL freight rail. I wasn't looking for a RollerCoaster Tycoon sequel, but something a little more, well, grounded. Oh, well, I guess people's idea of rail is too fixed in the world of passenger trains.

I get it, though. Most people simply couldn't figure out chain signals, or how to do a train-heavy megabase, with the current system. Train bridges are a videogame standard that help with both those issues. (Plus Ernestas left the dev team and made his own train game with bridges, which was perhaps a bit embarrassing. Fun game though.)

I hope they a least add a key to show only 1 layer at a time, so you can see the base under the rails when the meta becomes full rails-over-base.

[Fel]

Not sure what you mean by further from RL freight, there are plenty of places in my country where there are rails on a bridge or in a tunnel above/below other rails (and/or roads).
It had also been a highly requested feature for a long time because it allows for a much higher throughput in intersections when you use clover-style.

It's also going to make rails over water a whole lot more comfortable to build.


I also hope for a "hide elevated rails" button though.

[PunCrathod]

There is a freight train on a bridge in real life right now. Trains of all sorts including freight trains go on bridges all the time.

Having bridges allows for more advanced and complicated junctions that have much higher throughput that anything constrained to a single plane can ever do. And I do know how to use chain signals and have made train heavy megabases and I have requested these kinds of bridges multiple times not because it makes junctions easier but because it allow more complex junctions.

And rejecting a fun game mechanic just because you think it is not realistic is the one of the worst decisions a game developer can make.

[Galileus]

Factorio is already a video game and not RL train sim. I don't see how rail bridges get it away from relalism when you have alien llanet train network carried in a pocket and made with metal scraps.

Don't get me wrong, distasting or disliking something is fine... but that argukentation does not track.

Besides, it's an optional component that was also the most asked for feature. So hundred thousands get their wish and you can disable it. So where is the problem?

[Skorj]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

There is a freight train on a bridge in real life right now. Trains of all sorts including freight trains go on bridges all the time.

Bridges are very expensive to build and maintain, and are built where's there's no other good option. So over terrain features that can't be filled, like rivers, sure. And in some places over roads (more in new construction) because car drivers just can't seem to stop hitting trains. But rail crossing rail, whether at grade or above, is pretty rare.

But maybe it's a US vs EU thing. I'm only familiar with US rail, and the game is after all not a US team.

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

T
Having bridges allows for more advanced and complicated junctions that have much higher throughput that anything constrained to a single plane can ever do.

Bridges are simpler. More throughput? Sure. But you can hit the UPS limit of the game already with a train-heavy megabase. But, yes, I get it, bridges make it easier to get high throughput.

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

And rejecting a fun game mechanic just because you think it is not realistic is the one of the worst decisions a game developer can make.

Fair point, but since my argument was "I don't find it fun", well. But that's subjective, of course. Like I said, maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like this change.

[Vyndicu]

Originally posted by Skorj:

Perhaps I'm the only one who doesn't like the rail bridges, but to me they're so game-y and bring Factorio rail even farther from RL freight rail. I wasn't looking for a RollerCoaster Tycoon sequel, but something a little more, well, grounded. Oh, well, I guess people's idea of rail is too fixed in the world of passenger trains.

I have been riding and seeing all kind of trains, freight/passenger/metro-public transit/other, that goes over bridges on relatively flat terrain, mountain terrain, urban environment, and body of water in real life.


I look forward to seeing all kinds of new rail blueprint books people develop after "Factorio 2.0" + "Space Age" comes out.

[Skorj]

Originally posted by Dr. Full Frontal:

Don't get me wrong, distasting or disliking something is fine... but that argukentation does not track.

Besides, it's an optional component that was also the most asked for feature. So hundred thousands get their wish and you can disable it. So where is the problem?

The trains don't even slow for the ridiculous 45 degree slopes.

"You can disable it" is a bit silly, as the devs point out about quality, Gamer-brain doesn't work that way. But, hey, you folks go build your rollercoasters, I'll still be annoyed with the whole idea.

Heck, why restrict it to one level of bridges? You need 3 planes to trivialize crossings, IIRC.

[Fel]

From my experience in OpenTTD, 2 planes are enough because the only part that really needs it are the two sets of "straight" rails crossing each other.
Those two sets only hinder each other when crossing on a single plane, the rest are all about connecting together in the first place and can be "solved" by taking a bit more space.

I do agree with "it's optional" not being a great argument forcing yourself to not use something that's clearly better feels off.
I mean, you can get most of the crafting done by hand unless it involves liquids, that doesn't really make assembling machines optional (an extreme example of course).

The ramps being way too short compared to what a train could realistically climb is something that is kind of required in games that don't aim for realism because the ramps would be a pain to use otherwise.
Not sure why you feel like it makes it a rollercoaster though.

[Moucheron Quipet]

I feel like the "rollercoaster aspect" is mostly due to screenshots of the dev post, which show a lot of spaghetti-monsters with elevated rails, just to show what you can do with it. But in practice I'm pretty sure most players will use them in an organised fashion and it'll look more realistic.

Not that I care much personally, I think they look cool, but it's only useful for the very late game stuff and I usually don't play that far (#casual player). Note that dev mentioned elevated rails will be a separate mod you can toggle off.

[Fletch]

For anyone else who is curious wtf this discussion is about: it is about Friday Facts #378 - Trains on another level[factorio.com]

Personally, I think it looks cool -- and trains on a bridge is not some magical thing, trains on bridges has been a thing since trains were invented.

[Porcupine]

Originally posted by Skorj:

[...]
Fair point, but since my argument was "I don't find it fun", well. But that's subjective, of course. Like I said, maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like this change.

Then don't buy the DLC, you know, the item that is full of *CHANGE*.

Also, troll harder.

[Morsk]

Originally posted by Skorj:

Perhaps I'm the only one who doesn't like the rail bridges, but to me they're so game-y and bring Factorio rail even farther from RL freight rail. I wasn't looking for a RollerCoaster Tycoon sequel, but something a little more, well, grounded. Oh, well, I guess people's idea of rail is too fixed in the world of passenger trains.

I get it, though. Most people simply couldn't figure out chain signals,

The chain signal is terrible because it forces the entire network to have a maximum train length to avoid deadlock, and encourages the maximum length to be short. This is just as "game-y" and unrealistic as bridge spam.

[Errata]

In real life rail bridges are used sparingly because they're expensive. Easily solved with a mod that makes rail ramps and supports expensive enough that you use them only when necessary. But what is not easily solved with a mod at all would be adding a new rail level like this, so it's great that the engine is finally providing this much requested feature.

[The_Mell]

Originally posted by Skorj:

But rail crossing rail, whether at grade or above, is pretty rare.

But maybe it's a US vs EU thing.

And Germans are like:
Bridge - but for ships.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdeburg_Water_Bridge#/media/File:Magdeburg_Kanalbr%C3%BCcke_aerial_view_13.jpg

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Skorj:

The trains don't even slow for the ridiculous 45 degree slopes.

"You can disable it" is a bit silly, as the devs point out about quality, Gamer-brain doesn't work that way. But, hey, you folks go build your rollercoasters, I'll still be annoyed with the whole idea.

Heck, why restrict it to one level of bridges? You need 3 planes to trivialize crossings, IIRC.

1. Trains don't even not fit in your pocket. En masse. Why appeal to realism in a game that is not supposed to be a sim?

2. I don't get this argument. What do you propose then? Again, the most asked for feature ever AND its optional. And you are angry at other people because they like something you don't and at the devs because you lack self control? Your irritation might be a bit misplaced here. From my perspective, it's your complaints that are silly and unreasonable.

3. The answer to that is in the FFF. And beside that... why not? "Because I do not like it" is not a very good argument. Neither is "because it's not realistic" as we explained.

As someone here very smartly pointed out, having opinion is one thing and no one minds, acting out based on these opinions is a whole different thing though.

[RlyShadow]

Originally posted by Porcupine:

Originally posted by Skorj:

[...]
Fair point, but since my argument was "I don't find it fun", well. But that's subjective, of course. Like I said, maybe I'm the only one who doesn't like this change.

Then don't buy the DLC, you know, the item that is full of *CHANGE*.

Also, troll harder.

actually, i wouldn't be surprised if this is just a new standard feature that just gets added to the base game with the update. I would think anything the update adds that would completely change the core game will be added for free.