Producing iron sticks?

[radioreid2000]

How does this work? Whenever I set up a furnace with iron plates it only produces steel plate. What am I missing here?

[Khaylain]

Messaggio originale di brian_va:

Even without biters the grenades are useful in tree clearing. Yes bots can do it too, but then you have to do something with that wood.

I prefer poison capsules to get rid of trees. Yes, it takes a bit longer, but it seems to me that it affects a larger area.

[Hedning]

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

The main question was, "Is there anything one should not put on a main bus?" Not "Are there any uses for Barrels?"

Lol, where do you see this? I think you are confusing this with some other topic.

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

Like with Barrels, the main issue is that I never see anyone mass product pistols, light armor, or any military personal equipment

The question myself and knighttemplar was answering was what the most useless item in the game was. Obviously you don't mass produce light armor since you only need 1. Like did you seriously think knighttemplar suggested you mass produce light armor and put it on the bus?

[knighttemplar1960]

Messaggio originale di Khaylain:

Messaggio originale di brian_va:

Even without biters the grenades are useful in tree clearing. Yes bots can do it too, but then you have to do something with that wood.

I prefer poison capsules to get rid of trees. Yes, it takes a bit longer, but it seems to me that it affects a larger area.

Grenades have an area effect of 6.5 tiles. Poison capsules have an area effect of 11 tiles. Grenade damage is immediate (cluster grenades have a delay before the immediate effect). Poison capsules are a DOT. If you are inside a vehicle your player doesn't suffer from the poison damage and poison doesn't affect vehicles but the explosion damage from grenades does affect the vehicle.

I could never get the timing right on cluster grenades and I blew up several cars before I gave up on using them.

Explosive rockets are about 3 times the explosive strength of a grenade and they have the same area of effect but the range is 22 tiles and they become available far earlier than cluster grenades. Cluster grenades have a range of 20 tiles, an area of effect of 11 tiles but their shooting speed remains 2/s (same as regular grenades).

[Vyndicu]

Messaggio originale di Hedning:

*snipped*

How much space an item takes up is relative to how valuable it is and, to a lesser extent, where to craft it.

Barrel stack up to 10 in a single inventory slot, say in a chest or cargo wagon. It takes a single steel to craft a barrel. Steel can stack up to 100 in the same inventory space. You would net 10x times more barrel by crafting it on-site.

No one would put copper wires on a main bus because it takes up twice as much space.

Iron Gear takes two iron plates to craft and can be more tightly packed on the main bus. Just because only a few people do it doesn't mean it is a bad idea.


Xjulep first brought up this point, and I am indeed posted in the right thread.

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

I meant to ask this yesterday: are iron sticks the most tragic and useless item in the game? They're used for 6 items and most of those are pity recipes. Loose analogy to the copper wire, but at least copper wire has an obvious purpose like the metal gear.

As for mass-producing light armor? Who says they do?

I indeed didn't, and explicitly said that no one does that I know of. Here is the relative quotation.

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

I never see anyone mass product pistols, light armor, or any military personal equipment

This is not me debating what I did or didn't say. This is a statement. Take it or leave it.

[knighttemplar1960]

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

How much space an item takes up is relative to how valuable it is and, to a lesser extent, where to craft it.

The OP's question was how to produce iron sticks which was answered all most immediately. My replies have been focused on xjulep's question of which item is the most useless.

[Vyndicu]

Messaggio originale di knighttemplar1960:

The OP's question was how to produce iron sticks which was answered all most immediately. My replies have been focused on xjulep's question of which item is the most useless.

Indeed. I was not talking to OP either, as their question has been answered already.

I was simultaneously responding to Xjulep's two posts about what is worthwhile to transport vs. crafting on-site and which items are worthless.

[Hedning]

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

Xjulep first brought up this point, and I am indeed posted in the right thread.

No one has even mentioned a bus except you. Xjulep didn't ask about "what is worthwhile to transport vs. crafting on-site". That's only you talking about. Completely unrelated to anything anyone else here was talking about.

As for things to put on the bus I wouldn't put anything on the bus. Bus is a bad way to build a base. However if I were to build something bus-like then only smelted materials, circuits and lds would go there, if that. So you have smelting at the start and then you take a big chunk of copper and steel immediately off to lds then another of copper and iron immediately to circuits (where you build all 3 types). Remaining copper/iron and steel can go on the bus and join the circuits and lds. On the bus would then be:
½ belt of blue, red, copper, lds.
1 belt of iron, steel, green.
Would last up to 200 spm.

T3 module production would not take from the bus, but directly from the circuit area, because doing otherwise would be too stupid.

Similarly "mall" items would get their own feeds, especially iron for gears for belts/inserters, copper/red/steel to nuclear, and blue/lds for personal equipment, because when they need it they can consume a LOT.

[xjulep]

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

Messaggio originale di knighttemplar1960:

The OP's question was how to produce iron sticks which was answered all most immediately. My replies have been focused on xjulep's question of which item is the most useless.

Indeed. I was not talking to OP either, as their question has been answered already.

I was simultaneously responding to Xjulep's two posts about what is worthwhile to transport vs. crafting on-site and which items are worthless.

I was asking from a game design perspective not a game play perspective. Obviously iron sticks are not useless from a game play perspective.

[knighttemplar1960]

Messaggio originale di Hedning:

T3 module production would not take from the bus, but directly from the circuit area, because doing otherwise would be too stupid.

I know you have an anti-bus bias but you can be successful with a bus. In my mega base play throughs I graduate through several types of set ups including a bus and when I am just beginning T3 module production that set up draws from the very end of the bus so that all other machines that require red and blue circuits are served first. Once I have circuit subfactories set up off the main assembly area the bus is mainly obsolete and trains deliver directly to the banks of machines.

Its not an issue because I have designed my blue prints to transition from one form of supply to another. In most cases its just a matter of reversing the direction the belts move.

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

Messaggio originale di Vyndicu:

Indeed. I was not talking to OP either, as their question has been answered already.

I was simultaneously responding to Xjulep's two posts about what is worthwhile to transport vs. crafting on-site and which items are worthless.

I was asking from a game design perspective not a game play perspective. Obviously iron sticks are not useless from a game play perspective.

The game designers have done a very good job of making everything available in game useful for at least some portion of the player base in at least one situation or point in time in a play through. Somethings become obsolete quickly or are legacies from earlier versions of the game that still have niche uses so the developers left them in.

I think cluster grenades are the winner of least useful item and even those would have a niche use before becoming obsolete if they came earlier in the research tree.

[Vyndicu]

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

I was asking from a game design perspective not a game play perspective. Obviously iron sticks are not useless from a game play perspective.

Game Design is the creative process of creating the various things you experience in a video game. Those things are rules, mechanics, sounds, aesthetics, stories, and more.

Gameplay aspect is how players play with the video game itself.

It isn't possible to separate the two: Gameplay and Game Design, into distinct perspectives because they are both part of creating a video game experience process. For example, Game Designer creates a new iteration of a game they are working on and they have to play with it to see how it feels.

Consider this rhetorical question, how would someone create a video game without a game design?

[xjulep]

Here’s my rhetorical question: how would someone create a factorio clone without an iron stick item?

[Vyndicu]

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

Here’s my rhetorical question: how would someone create a factorio clone without an iron stick item?

I know you said it was a rhetorical question, but I will give you an answer regardless of what you think.

Create a mod based on Factorio or a new game without any recipe that uses or crafts an iron stick.


The real question is not if an iron stick is essential to a Factorio experience.

The real question lies in what you do with the set of items that the Factorio game provides.

[Galileus]

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

Here’s my rhetorical question: how would someone create a factorio clone without an iron stick item?

Reductio ad absurdum: Factorio clone with only two items and one recipe, because everything else is "useless".

[xjulep]

You guys seem very defensive about factorio. What if I were complaining about weeping obsidian or polished andesite? Would that be ok?

[Vyndicu]

Messaggio originale di xjulep:

You guys seem very defensive about factorio. What if I were complaining about weeping obsidian or polished andesite? Would that be ok?

I would have no problem as long you find something that you enjoy playing.