Please do not lock Artillery behind Space Science

[spoderman_spoody | Lvl 30 Druid]

The Schwerer Gustav came before Sputnik, even rocketry.

No. More. Sadism.

[Biometrix]

Artillery does not require Space Science.

Infinite Artillery upgrades require Space Science.

[spoderman_spoody | Lvl 30 Druid]

Among many other things, Artillery, and Cliff Explosives will require travelling to completely different planets to unlock in the 2.0 update.

[malogoss]

Can you please link where you got that info from? I'd like to read or hear that.
Thanks.

[Biometrix]

Originally posted by spoderman_spoody | Lvl 29 Druid:

Among many other things, Artillery, and Cliff Explosives will require travelling to completely different planets to unlock in the 2.0 update.

Also, Rocket Silo won't require a full tech tree in the mentioned update?

[spoderman_spoody | Lvl 30 Druid]

Originally posted by malogoss:

Can you please link where you got that info from? I'd like to read or hear that.
Thanks.

https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-373

"Since the goal was to make the overall expansion experience as good as possible, we have rebalanced the tech tree. This means, that with Space Age enabled, some items that are available in vanilla are unlocked later on some planet. This specifically applies to artillery, cliff explosives (this is the masochist part of me speaking), Spidertron, best tier of modules, and some personal equipment upgrades."

Originally posted by Biometrix:

Originally posted by spoderman_spoody | Lvl 29 Druid:

Among many other things, Artillery, and Cliff Explosives will require travelling to completely different planets to unlock in the 2.0 update.

Also, Rocket Silo won't require a full tech tree in the mentioned update?

What is the point of this comment? What are you trying to say?

[Biometrix]

Originally posted by spoderman_spoody | Lvl 29 Druid:

What is the point of this comment? What are you trying to say?

I'm saying Artillery will be behind other planets, but the Rocket Silo won't give Space Science, so Artillery won't be locked behind Space Science...?

Just like you wanted...?

[Chindraba]

I am, provisionally, unhappy about the move of cliff explosives. Especially as I don't see any alternative to them except spaghetti. I haven't used artillery much, and none seriously in game planning, so I will miss it less than others. Still, they made it plain that the base will be left to run itself for extended periods of time while the engineer is exploring other planets, and without artillery I cannot see that as practical because of the range the two larger worms have. There could be new weapons, much less OP than artillery, which could fill that gap, however, so it's more of a wait and see what else is said, before I consider artillery's move to be critical.

So far the devs have kept a reasonably balanced game, so I'm giving them the benefit of history and waiting, reluctantly wrt cliff explosives, to see what the final picture looks like.

[Biometrix]

I turn off cliff generation every single game. Those are annoying.

[malogoss]

Yeah so, I'm a huge fan of artillery myself, all my defence systems rely on it heavily in the late game, but I'm not worried about it being locked behind space science. From the same FFF:

There's a pic where you see the rocket silo tech icon as we know it, requiring only red, green and blue science packs.
"The rocket is cheaper in Space Age to not make it drag forever"
"space will be available sooner and there will be some nice additions available directly on Nauvis (the vanilla planet)."

From all that, I understand that we'll be in space pretty fast. Faster than we can currently launch our first rocket.
Also, that if we choose to, we could get artillery or whatever else we want in priority pretty fast too by choosing between 3 planets as a first destination.
Also, I get from the last quote that we'll likely have new ways to deal with aliens. As powerful as artillery, I doubt it. But good enough to make it to artillery without a worry.

All other items mentioned with artillery are near end game items except for one. Cliff explosives. I have to say, that one is weird. If we can craft grenades, then cliff explosives are pretty much just a big grenade, right? But then again, if the rocket is cheaper, it means that a smaller base is needed to build one. There's always decent room for a small base without having to deal with cliffs. You might get one in the way but that's manageable.

Thanks for the link. I already read it before, my problem is a bad memory, I needed to refresh it.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Biometrix:

I turn off cliff generation every single game. Those are annoying.

Some people prefer cliffs for the challenge and the defensive choke points.

[🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾]

Originally posted by Biometrix:

I turn off cliff generation every single game. Those are annoying.

Ah! I'm not alone.

[AlexMBrennan]

Some people prefer cliffs for the challenge and the defensive choke points.

Then you should not mind the removal of cliff explosives because enabling cliffs only to immediately remove them would be rather silly.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Some people prefer cliffs for the challenge and the defensive choke points.

Then you should not mind the removal of cliff explosives because enabling cliffs only to immediately remove them would be rather silly.

I don't mind at all. There is even a in between point in the settings where you can reduce the frequency and length of cliffs for a happy medium.

I usually set up a rails world and then turn the bugs back to default settings. When I do that I usually reduce or eliminate cliffs.

[Zarek]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Some people prefer cliffs for the challenge and the defensive choke points.

Then you should not mind the removal of cliff explosives because enabling cliffs only to immediately remove them would be rather silly.

I like having them when i have the ability to remove a few of the most obnoxious tiles.

[Drizzt]

just recently i played around with cliff frequency and continuity on the preview map, setting both to max - and you basically get what looks like terrain elevation contours (which is basically what it is)

i may play a game with that - and it will need cliff explosives to blast pathways - and i like the idea - like i enjoyed using tunnels and bridges in TTD, or circumnavigating the contours of the terrain rather than altering it (i know technically i am altering it with cliff explosives - but since we don't have bridges or tunnels it is the closest thing to building to the terrain if i just blast a few holes for train tracks)

i'm guessing they want the player to be trapped by the terrain to some extent in the Expansion - maybe even entirely encircled by some cliffs at the edge of a massive crater maybe? on the home planet - so that you could then revisit it later once you have the means to blast a passage and expand and explore further

i also very much like using cliffs as walls - since they don't need to be defended

definitely is a personal choice - and i would like to see more done with elevation - although i suspect with them turned up and there being just a few ways through, it will probably look and feel a lot more like multiple elevation levels

but currently i am starting a new game with the plan to pollute the living crap out of this planet in the hope of finally seeing a behemoth

last game i completed it using only coal power and still couldn't get one to spawn

think i need to build Epic in scale :-)