This has to be a joke

[Goldilox]

Literally going against the entire design philisophy of the game?
And then adding an achievement so I need to do a playthrough with it (I know it's optional) to have all achievements?

[[FF]Pvtdonut]

How does it go against the design philosophy of the game?

[Turret problems]

It certainly sounds fun, in a different factory game, i would've hoped the space DLC would've had more parts about space than four planets and a (admittedly interesting) lootbox mechanic...

[NouH]

Define the design philosophy of the game, where the devs said that was it and how this feature is going against it.

[Nico]

RNG on a large sample size is simply statistics and is surprisingly reliable, which fits pretty well into Factorio. Just for very small stuff, like making one armor for yourself, it would be actually relevant RNG, but even there, in the worst ase you get the normal product which you already get right now.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Nico:

RNG on a large sample size is simply statistics and is surprisingly reliable, which fits pretty well into Factorio. Just for very small stuff, like making one armor for yourself, it would be actually relevant RNG, but even there, in the worst ase you get the normal product which you already get right now.

and actually - Uranium Processing is (i think) the only product that currently requires you to implement some filtering if you want to use it to feed something else - making you engineer for the unpredictability

and so if people use Quality modules - they will have to also think about filtering the output - which is appropriate for an advanced stage factory

[Shurenai]

The BEST quality in the game is a 150% bonus. It will cost you more resources to build a factory out of pure legendary pieces than it would to simply build 150% more factory.

So the only thing most people are going to engage with quality wise at first is power armor, spidertron, and the components that go into the upgrade grid. And you're going to WANT those quality levels in those cases because it makes you so much better anyway by giving your power armor/spidertron way more equipment capacity and abilities.

And what do you know, The achievement is for getting legendary power armor filled with legendary equipment- Exactly the thing the player is most likely to want to do. Almost like they thought about how most players will interact with the system initially.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

The BEST quality in the game is a 150% bonus. It will cost you more resources to build a factory out of pure legendary pieces than it would to simply build 150% more factory.

So the only thing most people are going to engage with quality wise at first is power armor, spidertron, and the components that go into the upgrade grid. And you're going to WANT those quality levels in those cases because it makes you so much better anyway by giving your power armor/spidertron way more equipment capacity and abilities.

And what do you know, The achievement is for getting legendary power armor filled with legendary equipment- Exactly the thing the player is most likely to want to do. Almost like they thought about how most players will interact with the system initially.

lol - there you go being all logical and supportive of the dev's clearly positive intentions again

what's the world coming to? ;-)

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

The BEST quality in the game is a 150% bonus. It will cost you more resources to build a factory out of pure legendary pieces than it would to simply build 150% more factory.

So the only thing most people are going to engage with quality wise at first is power armor, spidertron, and the components that go into the upgrade grid. And you're going to WANT those quality levels in those cases because it makes you so much better anyway by giving your power armor/spidertron way more equipment capacity and abilities.

And what do you know, The achievement is for getting legendary power armor filled with legendary equipment- Exactly the thing the player is most likely to want to do. Almost like they thought about how most players will interact with the system initially.

Some of the things they decided on for quality though.

• Electric poles is just a waste of material for a tiny increase in wire length and coverage. If I need more length I'll use a big electric pole. If I need more coverage I'll use a substation.
  
• Turrets good but ammo???? Unless there are going to be tougher bugs Uranium rounds and damage researches are still going to be less expensive.
  
• Faster inserters is kind of meh too and for the same reason. I can just use an extra inserter. When I get to beacons and productivity modules a larger hand size would be more valuable.
  
• Mining drills deplete resources slower. I don't need that since I can research mining productivity.
  
• Worker robot have larger battery capacity. OK that's good but not all that useful since its recharge speed that limits the robots late game. I can just use more cheap robots, especially in light of the new pathing changes for robots. In the case of construction robots. I'm just going to use the cheap ones especially on the perimeter where there is a good chance that spitters will kill them when they are making repairs.
  
• Increased recharge speed for roboports is good but again its probably not worth the resources required.
  
• Repair packs have more durability. If the ratio of materials used to get to top tier is ~56 times greater then to be worth the time and effoct those repair packs have to last quite a bit more than 56 times longer than a normal one. That's going to apply to all consumables.

I can't see using quality for much other than personal equipment to be honest. Not sure its worth setting up the chains for anything else, particularly consumables.

[Goldilox]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

And what do you know, The achievement is for getting legendary power armor filled with legendary equipment- Exactly the thing the player is most likely to want to do. Almost like they thought about how most players will interact with the system initially.

But then you can throw the "it's optional" thing out of the window. It's something anyone who wants to get all of the achievements (many, many factorio players) will have to go through
And then I'd want it to be, you know, fun?

[Shurenai]

Originally posted by Goldilox:

Originally posted by Shurenai:

And what do you know, The achievement is for getting legendary power armor filled with legendary equipment- Exactly the thing the player is most likely to want to do. Almost like they thought about how most players will interact with the system initially.

But then you can throw the "it's optional" thing out of the window. It's something anyone who wants to get all of the achievements (many, many factorio players) will have to go through
And then I'd want it to be, you know, fun?

Achievements are themselves optional.... And you're assuming it won't be fun planning out builds to accomplish it. When the rest of the game is planning out builds to accomplish things.

You deciding you want all optional achievements does not somehow make them a requirement to play the game. It's an optional feature you opted into.


Edit: To drive home my point a little more, I also want all the achievements. And you know what? I had to speed run the game even though my typical completion is in the triple digits, That was not fun for me- And I had to do it several times too, because I didn't get all of them in one go. But it was optional. Doing Lazy Bastard was a very similar experience, Crippling my fun of the game so that I'd be able to get the achievement. But it was optional. Doing a whole extra playthrough without solar panels was annoying too; Not exactly fun, not exactly unfun. But annoying that I had to do a whole new run for it and again ignore an entire branch of gameplay however small, for the achievement.. Still optional though.

This new achievement they mentioned is the same thing. It's an optional objective. You can complete it if you want, you may not like it; But I doubt you liked every single other achievement either. If you're an achievement hunter, doing achievements that make you do parts of the game you don't particularly like is pretty much par for the course. So what's new?

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Shurenai:

If you're an achievement hunter, doing achievements that make you do parts of the game you don't particularly like is pretty much par for the course. So what's new?

this is absolutely spot on

i like the concepts for many of the achievements - but even some of the good ones can be a pain in the assembler - as well as some being massive time sinks

i am doing an achievement run now after having reset my achievements - and have pretty much completed the first run for lazy B, no solar, no laser turrets - currently going for all technology and at some level 2 and level 3 production stuff

but i will still need to do the speedruns - and like you i am not a speedy builder - plus the last level of productions goals is insane - then there is building more thing by robot than manually - and i am not a big robot guy - or delivering 10K items by logistic robot - a system i don't use at all etc etc

the achievement argument is ridiculous

but then again i am finding that most the other ones are too

but like i have mentioned - i expect it will die down in a week - once the knee jerk reaction to post overly negative catastrophising has passed the people by lol :-)

[Skev]

For a huge number of players, Factorio is pretty much a 'solved' game, we've found the best way to build everything in the game for our style of play. This feature gives us a reason to try some very different designs, with a massive amount of scope given how the system interacts with so many different game objects. That fits perfectly within the design philosophy of the game, I'm really looking forward to it.

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Drizzt:

the achievement argument is ridiculous

I quite like it.

"Factorio cannot be finished without dying, because it forces you to die in non-optional achivements". Such a bad game design! Such a wonderful reductio ad absurdum goldmine!

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Dr. Full Frontal:

Originally posted by Drizzt:

the achievement argument is ridiculous

I quite like it.

"Factorio cannot be finished without dying, because it forces you to die in non-optional achivements". Such a bad game design! Such a wonderful reductio ad absurdum goldmine!

just because you enjoy arguing with people about it doesn't stop it being ridiculous :-P

but yes - carry on and have your fun - at least these are dumb fights about the game and not politics or pricing lol :-)

[Galileus]

Originally posted by Drizzt:

Originally posted by Dr. Full Frontal:

I quite like it.

"Factorio cannot be finished without dying, because it forces you to die in non-optional achivements". Such a bad game design! Such a wonderful reductio ad absurdum goldmine!

just because you enjoy arguing with people about it doesn't stop it being ridiculous :-P

but yes - carry on and have your fun - at least these are dumb fights about the game and not politics or pricing lol :-)

Fun? FUN!? Do you realize convincing an internet r-rated person of the TRUTH it is LITERALLY something you can achieve in life, and as such, I have no other option than to do it?

Told you, it's possibilities are endless XD