buy the game with the workshop service

[warxelo1]

what happens with the workshop???????

[DaBa]

What are you talking about? Steam Workshop? Why would anybody need that? This game has built in mod browser and a dedicated external mod website.

[Fel]

The mod portal is outside of steam (and frankly far superior to the workshop).
mods.factorio.com/

You can also access it directly from the "mods" menu.

[brian_va]

Originally posted by warxelo1:

what happens with the workshop???????

valve helpfully removes any mod from your computer that the uploader removes. valve also believes the commoners shouldn't have luxuries such as version control or anything other than forced updates. obviously, the ability to roll back or delay a forced update, wanted or not, isn't granted either, it working with your game isn't their concern (they already have your money). the only real workaround to the forced update is putting steam in the offline mode, and guess what API doesn't work with steam in offline mode? did you guess the workshop, and all associated mods? gold star for you.


thats pretty much what happens with the workshop.

[fractalgem]

Originally posted by brian_va:

Originally posted by warxelo1:

what happens with the workshop???????

valve helpfully removes any mod from your computer that the uploader removes. valve also believes the commoners shouldn't have luxuries such as version control or anything other than forced updates. obviously, the ability to roll back or delay a forced update, wanted or not, isn't granted either, it working with your game isn't their concern (they already have your money). the only real workaround to the forced update is putting steam in the offline mode, and guess what API doesn't work with steam in offline mode? did you guess the workshop, and all associated mods? gold star for you.


thats pretty much what happens with the workshop.

This, it's part of why i'm glad the factorio devs made their own mod portal. Becuase sometimes, you're in the middle of a playthrough and a mod updates which would BREAK half your factory and you'd rather not.

[AlexMBrennan]

valve helpfully removes any mod from your computer that the uploader removes

Of course Valve do this because they have an army of lawers that ensure that the company follows the law. It turns out that publishing copyrighted material without the owner's permission is not legal.

For the same reason Wube will take down mods when requested by the mod authors because getting sued over this when none of the modder users pay a single cent would be really stupid.

I am sorry that you lost the mod but there is no way around that unless you want to legalise slavery to force the unpaid modders to keep working on your favourite mods.

[Khaylain]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

valve helpfully removes any mod from your computer that the uploader removes

Of course Valve do this because they have an army of lawers that ensure that the company follows the law. It turns out that publishing copyrighted material without the owner's permission is not legal.

For the same reason Wube will take down mods when requested by the mod authors because getting sued over this when none of the modder users pay a single cent would be really stupid.

I am sorry that you lost the mod but there is no way around that unless you want to legalise slavery to force the unpaid modders to keep working on your favourite mods.

You misunderstand, then. Removing something from someones computer when the uploader no longer have it available for download is not the same as not publishing it without permission. It's only publishing it if you can still download it, not if you already have it on your computer.

It's like some book company coming into your house and taking back a book you bought because they no longer have the right to publish it. Do you see the difference.

Removing something you've already downloaded is not necessary to comply with the law, it's just being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

And you making statements likening being able to keep a mod that you've already downloaded to legalizing slavery is inane. Be better.

[🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾]

Every gamer, well most of us it seems, knows that using mods in a game is a temporary thing at best; the creator of the mod may at any time change, or withdraw their creation from use by the game developer. I know nothing about any laws around this, but to my mind the dev is obliged (required?) to remove said mod from their platform, as permission to use it has been revoked.

@Khaylain: The book analogy does not fit this discussion I think, since the book is presumed to be paid for and is therefore owned by the reader. The gaming mod is there by permission, loaned as it were for use, so it can be taken away at any point.

I've had a few factories disabled by the removal of mods, but you just move on from there don't you?

[GreenBeanN1]

I don't use mod managers. I manage mods myself. Especially Factorio mods.
Only an EMP pulse that erases all backups can disrupt that.

[Galileus]

Originally posted by 🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾:

Every gamer, well most of us it seems, knows that using mods in a game is a temporary thing at best; the creator of the mod may at any time change, or withdraw their creation from use by the game developer. I know nothing about any laws around this, but to my mind the dev is obliged (required?) to remove said mod from their platform, as permission to use it has been revoked.

That's a huge gray area, modding. Many EULAs state mods are owned by the developer, not by the modder. If not mistaken, Nexus takes ownership of the mods uploaded to the site. Bethesda, I think, tried something similar, though they tried so much dirty sh** around modding it's hard to keep track. Wizards of the Coast went as far as to try and take ownership of everything created within their IP.

The problem is in the name. It's a mod. It's not exactly your IP. In a similar way if someone made a "mod" for a book series being a tip to read them in different order, it's not exactly something he has any rights to. If a website quotes that person and their tip about reading order, he can ask them to remove it - but he cannot force them.

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

valve helpfully removes any mod from your computer that the uploader removes

Of course Valve do this because they have an army of lawers that ensure that the company follows the law. It turns out that publishing copyrighted material without the owner's permission is not legal.

For the same reason Wube will take down mods when requested by the mod authors because getting sued over this when none of the modder users pay a single cent would be really stupid.

I am sorry that you lost the mod but there is no way around that unless you want to legalise slavery to force the unpaid modders to keep working on your favourite mods.

Where I live it is actually illegal to delete data from your computer without your consent(and no agreeing to an eula is not consent in this case). It is also illegal to force someone to destroy something they legally obtained. And even if you obtained something illegally only the police can take it from you. If you are not the police then it is illegal for you to do anything to something someone else has obtained even if you know they obtained it illegally. The only exception is that if someone takes something from you while you are witnessing the theft you can attempt to retrieve your stuff as long as you do not use excessive force and the stuff or the thief has not left your line of sight. So if someone steals your car. And the next day you see someone driving your stolen car it is illegal for you to take your car back. The only thing you can legally do to get your stuff back after it has left your vicinity is to call the police and have them retrieve your stolen property for you. It does not matter if the stuff is physical or digital the same laws apply.

So technically valve is breaking the law every time they delete a workshop mod from someones computer in my country. So much for your "army of lawyers that ensure that the company follows the law."

[Khaylain]

Originally posted by 🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾:

Every gamer, well most of us it seems, knows that using mods in a game is a temporary thing at best; the creator of the mod may at any time change, or withdraw their creation from use by the game developer. I know nothing about any laws around this, but to my mind the dev is obliged (required?) to remove said mod from their platform, as permission to use it has been revoked.

@Khaylain: The book analogy does not fit this discussion I think, since the book is presumed to be paid for and is therefore owned by the reader. The gaming mod is there by permission, loaned as it were for use, so it can be taken away at any point.

I've had a few factories disabled by the removal of mods, but you just move on from there don't you?

You don't need to have paid for a book. People can give them to you. That's what most modders do, they give the mod away. That means that once it's on my computer I have received a copy that is mine. Yes, people can make rules for what I can do with it, but you shouldn't be able to make any such rules apply retroactively, just like the example with the book. You can remove the book from the distributor, but you should never remove a book from someone else's property. And my computer is my property.

[Doom Sayer]

Originally posted by 🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾:

Every gamer, well most of us it seems, knows that using mods in a game is a temporary thing at best; the creator of the mod may at any time change, or withdraw their creation from use by the game developer. I know nothing about any laws around this, but to my mind the dev is obliged (required?) to remove said mod from their platform, as permission to use it has been revoked.

@Khaylain: The book analogy does not fit this discussion I think, since the book is presumed to be paid for and is therefore owned by the reader. The gaming mod is there by permission, loaned as it were for use, so it can be taken away at any point.

I've had a few factories disabled by the removal of mods, but you just move on from there don't you?

Legal argument plainly useless.
https://youtu.be/i8ju_10NkGY

[RiO]

Originally posted by Khaylain:

Removing something you've already downloaded is not necessary to comply with the law, it's just being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Correct. Moreover, in cases where one considers subscriptions to digital content being revoked, law can step in and label it as non-conformance to contract.

This is what the EU did with Directive 2019/770 on the supply of digital content and services. Article 10 on third party rights states that any restriction on (or removal of) access to digital content acquired under contract, which results from third party rights issues -- in particular intellectual property rights; but it applies in general for any third-party rights -- is to be treated as non-conformance to contract and consumers have access to the usual remedies for non-conformance to rectify it. That is: to have conformance restored via access to the content being restored; to receive a partial refund commensurate to the value of the lost content; or to terminate the contract - losing access to the full product, but being given a full refund.

Originally posted by 🆄🅽🅲🅻🅴 🅹🅾:

Every gamer, well most of us it seems, knows that using mods in a game is a temporary thing at best; the creator of the mod may at any time change, or withdraw their creation from use by the game developer. I know nothing about any laws around this, but to my mind the dev is obliged (required?) to remove said mod from their platform, as permission to use it has been revoked.

See above.

Originally posted by Dr. Full Frontal:

That's a huge gray area, modding. Many EULAs state mods are owned by the developer, not by the modder.

I think Wube is also one of the 'good guys' in this area. They only claim ownership over the Factorio IP and the game assets that they in turn offer modders a license to, so they are allowed to reuse or modify them to create derived work in the context of mods for Factorio. (E.g. things like a mod that adds a new faster belt type based on recolored art.)

They legally protect themselves by preconditioning them allowing you to publish your mod through the Factorio mod portal, on the fact that you attest your mod does not violate any third party rights - in particular intellectual property. And that if it includes foreign IP, you have obtained the proper rights from its rights-holder to use it.

Basically, this is impromptu indemnification.
And any suits for damages would be effortlessly redirected at the actual infringing party that violated the agreement, where Wube would probably join the suit on the plaintiff's side to sue for additional damages wrt costs for undertaking the effort to remove the offending content from the mod portal and make further downloads impossible.

(Because by law in most jurisdictions they will still be required to take it down if they want to fall within 'mere conduit' clauses.)