Can someone explain the Spidertron to me?

[Malidictus]

Not how it works or what it does - I have one, I've played around with it.

What I mean is: why is everyone seemingly obsessed with the thing? The mod portal seems to be like a quarter Spidertron mods. Early Spidertron, automated Spidertron, more Spidertron, bigger Spidertron, Spidertron with guns, etc. I never found the thing very useful, but clearly I'm in the minority.

So what am I missing? What functionality does the Spidertron have that can't be accomplished by going there and doing it myself?

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by shadain597:

Yeah, vanilla spidertron has a movement disadvantage vs a flying vehicle, but those vehicles clearly weren't balanced for vanilla play. I'd expect that a Wube-made flying vehicle would, at the very least, have a smaller inventory + smaller equipment grid, compared to the ground-based spider.

That does seem to be the case, yes. I used the Helicopter mod for the longest time in my previous save. I'm using Lex's Aircraft[mods.factorio.com] on this one, but I'm not far enough along to actually have any of them. Supposedly they're built on the Spidertron framework, so maybe they do? Suppose I can check in a Sandbox save :)

Either way, yeah. Mods have a way of making vanilla items obsolete. I don't THINK that's quite the case for the Spidertron, but it certainly does seem to contribute to my lack of understanding of their value.

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Not really. So far I'm still only playing vanilla as I still find vanilla enjoyable. Spidertron groups are more of a mobile logistic network with attack and self defense capabilities that can go from mall to mall to stock up on supplies or recycle supplies that are surplus from outposts that are no longer needed (like played out mining outposts). Without mods you don't have flying vehicles and spidertrons are your go to vehicle. Better than a tank, better than a supply train, it combines the 2 with remote construction capabilities and remote movement capabilities added.

It's worth noting that I only have a single mall for the entire base, supplied by train with all the items I will reasonably need on my person. Usually some basic amount of resources to hand-craft the odds-and-ends I don't typically carry (signals, pipe corners, manifolds, etc.) as well as belts, inserters, loaders and such. Spidertrons can't hand-craft so that puts an extra logistics load, but that shouldn't be TOO bad. Like I said before - I think it might be worth using them as just mobile construction units when I get to the stage of plopping down entire facilities in one go.

I'm not that fussed about combat. My previous save had Biters entirely disabled. This one has them in peaceful mode, so they only fight to defend themselves, but I don't need to worry about them attacking me. Still, having something better than a tank for combat is certainly useful.

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

They aren't a pain to manage. Just like with trains you set the first one up and you can copy the filters (or the entire spidertron set up) and after that you can just adjust sliders to suit your needs.

Trains ARE a pain to manage, though, and for most of the same reasons. I don't like dedicating entire trains to lines which might not always be needed. Initially, I tried to use signals and it worked... kinda-sorta-mostly. I've been using LTN for the longest time now. I'm hoping Project Cybersyn[mods.factorio.com] keeps being developed as that seems like a superior version of LTN with less dead-air train travel.

[DaBa]

It's essentially a Power Armor Mk3, with it's own weaponry, ability to walk over anything, and the ability to be operated remotely essentially allowing you to be in many places at the same time. It's also the best combat vehicle in the entire game and, again, it can be operated remotely. Oh and you might've glossed over a fact that it is a GIANT MECHANICAL SPIDER.

I'm not sure what's there to explain, it's pretty self evident how useful it is and why people like the darn thing so much. Who doesn't want to pilot a giant mechanical spider of doom? So yeah, of course it will also be a popular subject of many mods.

[DCYW]

Have you played SimCity 2000 before? Basically that single eyed monster roaming around the map zapping your city then dissipates in an limited time, only you control that zapping as spider now using armor and equipment (you dat spider )). Modded game, even better.

[kevinshow]

there are 2 things i didn't use for the spidertron at first, so i thought, what's the big deal? Even my car can go faster! (i was just using it as a vehicle that doesn't get stuck in my base or when moving around terrain).

first is, logistics..your spidertron and get things from the logistic network. it can carry roboports and have construction bots.

second is, your spidertron can be automated to go places.

and the result of those 2 things is, if you can automate where your spidertron goes with construction materials, the bots can build things for you and you don't need to be there. they have a built-in radar so they can move around the map and you lay down blueprints.

A good use-case that I do with the spidertrons, is to use them to make remote radar/solar power stations. Fill them up with solar panels, accumulators, powerline of your choice, 1 radar, and now they can go places and put down these radar power stations without needing me to go there and do it. And if you have biters to deal with, you can totally add in lasers and walls also, to your blueprint of this remote outpost.

besides that useful feature, they also can carry weapons, which you can request from the logistics network. so now you can semi-automate destroying biter nests also. send them into a biter area, go back to what you're doing, look at the map later and see that the area is cleared of biters, then rinse and repeat.

[Zaflis]

Originally posted by navorskatie:

second is, your spidertron can be automated to go places.

I wouldn't call it automatic moving, you are sending them manually with a remote control.

Biggest gain for combat is their ability to fire nukes. Player has no other way to do that than going on foot with power armor, and spidertron is far more agile even with SqueakThrough.

[shadain597]

Originally posted by Zaflis:

Originally posted by navorskatie:

second is, your spidertron can be automated to go places.

I wouldn't call it automatic moving, you are sending them manually with a remote control.

Movement is indeed automated. Destination selection is not. Ever used an RC car as a kid? Having to constantly give input is very different from a single input telling it to find and take it's own path to a specific location.

[Stellar Remnant]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

So what am I missing? What functionality does the Spidertron have that can't be accomplished by going there and doing it myself?

You can have more than one of them. You can use remotes to make infinity spiders follow a leader. Load them all up with explosive rockets and watch the enemies melt.

[jamiechi]

I normally don't play with biters enabled. Since I use the Abandoned Ruins mod, the Spidertron might be a good thing to use to move around to search for loot. And to automatically defend myself from the enemy turrets and mines.

I haven't used the Spidertron before, but I think due to this discussion, I will try them and see how I like them.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by jamiechi:

I haven't used the Spidertron before, but I think due to this discussion, I will try them and see how I like them.

Yes, the discussion has certainly given me ideas to try if/when I get back up to Spidertrons on my current save :) I think having mods and playing in Peaceful Mode (biters exist, but never attack) may be colouring my perception, but there certainly seems to be a lot more use for the thing than I thought.

[Nonotorious]

3 sets of robot legs in the grid make it plenty fast and it can walk over everything except open water, which you can make a dirt blueprint for to make stepping stones. Auto-fire and auto-travel, shift click to add more waypoints, whats not to like?

[Hedning]

Knowing what to fill spidertrons for remote building with is part of the learning curve. Like someone already said you could fill them with every item, but this is not necessary as most building projects use the same type of items. You can have a special spidertron for building special things like walls and powerplants since they use very different types of materials.

Spidertrons also increase your effective power armor grid since you don't need any legs in your pa. Fitting a couple roboports in there as well means your personal building is even faster. Faster is better. And its extra inventory is basically an expansion to your personal inventory.

That is on top of the faster and more convenient travel. Remotes work for the spidertrons you sit in as well. No need to catch a train for medium distance travel if you can just click your spidertron to go there, and no need to waste 5 min holding the movement keys when you can place one click and then spend the 5 min building stuff remotely.

[Malidictus]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Knowing what to fill spidertrons for remote building with is part of the learning curve. Like someone already said you could fill them with every item, but this is not necessary as most building projects use the same type of items. You can have a special spidertron for building special things like walls and powerplants since they use very different types of materials.

Yeah, I suppose I could have different Spidertrons filled with different building materials. Like maybe one full of belts and Inserters, one full of rails and such. While I like automation, sometimes I have to wonder if it's worth spending the time and effort automating something I can easily do myself. Yes, this is an automation game, but not EVERYTHING in it is worth automating. Things I only need to do a few times just seem... unnecessary.

Realistically speaking - how many facilities am I even going to build before I cap out my UPS? From my previous save where I started dropping frames, it wasn't that many. Certainly not enough that I couldn't just make multiple trips to my Home Warehouse to carry stuff in my own inventory.

Personally, I tend to bother automating things only when they either take too long, cost too much effort or have me leave the game idling. Building facilities is none of those things. Even if I have to make multiple trips, that's fairly easy with a flying vehicle. At most, I can think of using the Spidertron to lay down stone pavement and landfill automatically, though even then I'd end up having to micromanage its build area.

Maybe I should look into that Spidertron Automation mod...

Originally posted by Hedning:

Spidertrons also increase your effective power armor grid since you don't need any legs in your pa. Fitting a couple roboports in there as well means your personal building is even faster. Faster is better. And its extra inventory is basically an expansion to your personal inventory.

This one does sound reasonable. I think I may have modified (both third-party mods and vanilla settings) to the point where I don't really need more power armour stuff. I already have flying vehicles in the game which can travel anywhere, with an equipment grid, and not have to worry about bumping into things. Military-wise - my previous save file was with Biters fully disabled. This one has them enabled but in passive mode.

I'm broadly uninterested in combat in this game, as I don't consider the combat mechanics to be very good. I like HAVING it since it justifies the military research, but a tank and such should be enough, I think. That's one of the things I like about Satisfactory and Dyson Sphere Programme - lack of enemies and military to worry about.

Originally posted by Hedning:

That is on top of the faster and more convenient travel. Remotes work for the spidertrons you sit in as well. No need to catch a train for medium distance travel if you can just click your spidertron to go there, and no need to waste 5 min holding the movement keys when you can place one click and then spend the 5 min building stuff remotely.

Is travel really that much of an issue for people? I had a pretty big base (large enough to tank my CPU) and I've never had to travel all that far - even by car. I built paved roads near the rail tracks, stuck some Exposkeletons in the modded Car equipment grid and didn't worry about it so much. The helicopter was nice, but only insomuch as it could travel directly, instead of following roads - which I assume the Spidertron will, as well.

Realistically, what's the difference between sending a Spidertron there and going there myself, in the absence of mods? In either case, I'm waiting for a Spidertron to travel the full distance. Unless you're proposing I build Spidertrons loaded with construction items all over the map, this doesn't seem to solve the travel issue, so much as re-conceptualise it.

[knighttemplar1960]

All of that depends on your computer specs. Additionally mods are typically not optimized. The very mods you are using may be one of the things tanking your UPS.

In my current pure vanilla play through I'm in the process of expanding my start base into a megabase. I have 3 bot based copper smelters, 3 bot based iron smelters, 1 bot based steel smelter, 1 stone smelting/processing area, 1 uranium processing and enrichment plant, 4 oil processing plants one of which is bot based (one of which is an old non-beaconed model that is turned off and in the process of being dismantled), 2 coal liquefaction plants, 3, 2x4 nuclear plants, 3 coal/solid fuel back up plants that supply power mainly for the laser turrets if the power demand spikes, and several ore mines plus my main assembly/logistic mall area. It takes ~2 minutes in a 1-4 nuclear fueled train to go from one corner of the base to another and about the same time to go from the central logistic area to one of the perimeters in a spidertron equipped with a single exoskeleton.

The map is a rails world map for resources with expansion turned back on and set to default. My spidertron building crews are building or dismantling artillery bunkers or exterior defenses
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2916352252
and taking space for building and more resource patches in the north. (I'm elsewhere setting up a couple of trains for the coal liquefaction plant I just finished building.)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2921045304
The main assembly/logistic area is in the center. The start patch started out as spaghetti that I organized into a main bus that is now a main bus/logistic supply area.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2921045363
When I'm done expanding in the north I'll mine those ore patches, set up more copper and iron smelters, and move my circuit manufacturing to beaconed sub factories out of the main assembly area and after that I'll start working on expanding to ~1,200 science per minute set up.

At this point in this play through I still have 60 UPS. When I get to 1,200 SPM I'll be down to about 30 UPS and my factory will look something like this
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2696039306
In the approximate center where I'm standing is the main assembly area. Its roughly the same size as the one in the current base except the science labs are where the circuit assembly area was in this old base. This old base takes 24 2x4 nuclaer power plants to run and a train ride to the perimeter takes about 5 minutes.

My computer was a top line gaming rig when I bought it..... 10 years ago. Unless yours is an old potato you should have equal or better performance. That might indicate that your early game UPS issues are being caused by the mods you are using.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by Malidictus:

Realistically speaking - how many facilities am I even going to build before I cap out my UPS? From my previous save where I started dropping frames, it wasn't that many. Certainly not enough that I couldn't just make multiple trips to my Home Warehouse to carry stuff in my own inventory.

Well, on my crappy old computer (processor from 2015) I can reach around 4k spm without suffering UPS drops assuming I don't have any other production (primarily module production). That's definitely a base large enough to benefit massively from spidertrons.

Even if I have to make multiple trips, that's fairly easy with a flying vehicle.

Yes, cheaty mods can easily replace anything vanilla. However vanilla also has some powerful cheat tools to build creative where you don't even need to move stuff at all but can use the pipette to get a stack even if you don't have the item in your inventory, or click it in your crafting menu to instantly get a stack.

However if you do want to play vanilla without cheats the personal inventory is not enough late game and you absolutely need the spidertron. Before the spidertron we were all using building trains because again the personal inventory is far from enough. Even if you never build remotely the spidertrons are required late game just for their inventory.

I'm broadly uninterested in combat in this game, as I don't consider the combat mechanics to be very good. I like HAVING it since it justifies the military research, but a tank and such should be enough, I think.

I didn't talk about military because it's really not the strong side of the spidertron. It is useful if you need territory NOW and can't wait for artillery creep, but it is a lot of manual labor unless you only need a small section of new territory. The tank is definitely not enough though. It would probably take 1000 hours to clear an area with the tank that you can clear in 1 hour with some spidertrons. I have never used the tank at that stage. I don't even know if it can survive late game evolution biters.

stuck some Exposkeletons in the modded Car equipment grid

Yes and I'm sure your car was faster than the spidertron, but you are comparing cheats with vanilla. Not really a fair comparison. You can use cheats to literally teleport. No vehicle could beat that.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by Hedning:

]I didn't talk about military because it's really not the strong side of the spidertron. It is useful if you need territory NOW and can't wait for artillery creep, but it is a lot of manual labor unless you only need a small section of new territory. The tank is definitely not enough though. It would probably take 1000 hours to clear an area with the tank that you can clear in 1 hour with some spidertrons. I have never used the tank at that stage. I don't even know if it can survive late game evolution biters.

The tank can't survive against behemoths. It hasn't got the health or speed required, A group of spidertrons is actually faster at clearing out large clusters of nests than artillery (at base artillery firing speed) and they handle the waves of biters and spitters released while they are there sparing your perimeter defenses those attacks. A group of 5-6 spidertrons can handle a large cluster of nests with difficulty. A group of 10 or more are unstoppable (as long as you don't run out of rockets).

The issue with the spidertrons is that it is much more expensive in terms of resources required. You will use far more (perhaps triple the amount) of resources in rockets, construction robots, and repair packs using spidertrons than doing the same thing using artillery creep.