The mod portal sucks sideways

[MARTFONGER]

Why would you EVER do this when steam provides a workshop? You force all kinds of sign up for no logical reason just to make us use your crap portal.

I guess you aren't good enough developers to integrate into Steam.

[Morphic]

Publicado originalmente por KatherineOfSky:

I think you are missing the key points:
1. The Factorio mod portal isn't *marginally* better than the Steam workshop. It is much much better, and provides access to many versions of each mod.
2. The mods can be accessed in game (with registration), avoiding the very inconvenient Steam Workshop all together.
3. You would be asking mod-makers to check multiple places for comments/problems about their mods, which doubles the continual workload for thousands of creators.

1. Opinion. Steam Workshop is actually pretty solid and makes it incredibly easy for most people who are inexperienced with Mods to be able to easily mod their game.(which is probably majority of gamers) No need to extract files and place them manually in the correct directories or search X directories to delete Y files due to a conflict. You simply need to hit Subscribe or Unsubscribe to install/uninstall mods.(not saying Factorio mod portal is bad/subpar or whatever since, IMO, it's pretty good)

2. How is Workshop inconvenient? You can even pull it up and search for Mods while you are in-game by using the Steam Overlay. Plus it typically autogenerates categories for you to narrow your search so you can search for Graphical Mods or Character Mods. Granted it's on the Author/Uploader to tag their Mod correctly.

3. The reverse can be said though; if people got on board with Steam Workshop then there'd simply be 1 place for Modders to congregate. Instead of having to check Nexus, Steam, X Game's personal Mod Portal, etc. you'd just have to check the Workshop. (IMO, the only reason why Nexus is still extremely popular is due to uncensored Mods and it already being established prior to Workshop. If Valve would only check/ban Mods that have malicious code in them but allow all the "risque" Mods... Nexus would have serious competition.)

[Fel]

Morphic, you obviously never experienced a 10+ hours long save wreaked by a forced mod update.

I lost a few saves in starbound, stellaris and cities skylines because some mods updated, creating incompatibilities with other mods in the process and destroying the save.
When it wasn't incompatibilities, it was a mod that completely changed some of its features, without it being fully compatible with earlier versions, or mods being forcefully removed from my hard drives because the author deleted it in a fit of anger.

Steam's workshop is fine for people that just want a couple mods and that don't attach too much importance to their saves (or just play so much at once that they don't need 2-3 months to not mind "finishing" that save).
I am very happy with the workshop in dungeons of dredmore, dead cells and other similar games where runs are fairly short and where mods are designed to be mostly alone, it's definitely a great addition for those, and the auto update feature is also very welcome since you get the latest versions at all times without having to check anything.


The problem comes when you go for games that have a longer run length, because you really want to freeze the mods in place for the whole duration of the run to be sure nothing breaks half way through just because of a mod update.

I understand the wish to have everything in the same place and the convenience of auto-updates for people that are not too used to modding their game, but until steam greatly overhauls its workshop to allow for specific versions and the likes, it is not going to be a competitor to mod portals for any game that thrives on having many mods active at once and with a long playtime for each run/save.

[brian_va]

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

Steam's workshop is fine for people that just want a couple mods and that don't attach too much importance to their saves (or just play so much at once that they don't need 2-3 months to not mind "finishing" that save).

add games that don't change often to that list as well.

[Morphic]

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

Morphic, you obviously never experienced a 10+ hours long save wreaked by a forced mod update.

Not a forced update but I have lost entire saves in games like Kenshi(which can easily be upwards of 50+ hours) or Skyrim due to mods. Hell, with Nexus I've had to blow my entire Monthly data simply because I needed to completely uninstall the game and reinstall it after deleting all the folders/registry due to a very bad Mod conflict. That's why I've grown into the habit of making backups and storing them in a separate folder/USB.

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

The problem comes when you go for games that have a longer run length, because you really want to freeze the mods in place for the whole duration of the run to be sure nothing breaks half way through just because of a mod update.

I'd say the system isn't totally at fault for these instances though; since the Mod Author is the one uploading those changes. IMO, it's little different than Nexus where a Modder pushes an update/patch while taking down the older version. I had that happen with New Vegas and a Texture Mod; his old version didn't conflict with a Light Mod I was using but it would cause a major bug once you had too many items in your inventory, his update didn't have the bug but did have the conflict. So I basically had to choose to use a Mod that made it so I could only ever have ~25 items in my inventory at once or use the updated version but be unable to use the Light Mod I liked.

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

I understand the wish to have everything in the same place and the convenience of auto-updates for people that are not too used to modding their game, but until steam greatly overhauls its workshop to allow for specific versions and the likes, it is not going to be a competitor to mod portals for any game that thrives on having many mods active at once and with a long playtime for each run/save.

No system is going to fit everyone. The forced update method of Steam can cause conflicts/problems... but so can standalone Modders creating bugs or introducing future content that conflicts with existing ones.

I was not saying Workshop is better than Factorio's Mod Portal or that Workshop is better in general. My point was simply that Factorio's Mod Portal isn't intrinsically better than Workshop and Workshop isn't better than standalone Mod Portals... Steam Workshop is simply more accessible and easier to use. Just use what you prefer.

[piccolo255]

Publicado originalmente por Morphic:

I was not saying Workshop is better than Factorio's Mod Portal or that Workshop is better in general. My point was simply that Factorio's Mod Portal isn't intrinsically better than Workshop and Workshop isn't better than standalone Mod Portals... Steam Workshop is simply more accessible and easier to use. Just use what you prefer.

As you said earlier, Steam Workshop is easier than "extract[ing] files and plac[ing] them manually in the correct directories" etc. That's about it.

Factorio mod portal is integrated into the game, so it shares all of the Steam Workshop's good points (including ease of use), while adding some nice features like "not forcing you to update" and "no cryptic behavior" (I'm looking at you, Civ5, with endless "mods aren't downloading" threads). It is strictly superior.

Well, except for 1) the long-term viability -- generally speaking, a developer/publisher going bankrupt and shutting down their service is far more likely than it happening to Steam, and 2) registration/link-with-Steam/login requirement. I understand wanting to limit the mod portal use to verified owners (bandwidth isn't free), but it's a hurdle that ideally shouldn't be there.

If a game's own mod management is subpar, requiring manual downloading, installation, and/or file operations to enable and disable mods, then I understand asking for Workshop. Fortunately, that's not the case here, which means that asking for Workshop is essentially masochism :)

[Hoshikudaki]

Publicado originalmente por Morphic:

3. The reverse can be said though; if people got on board with Steam Workshop then there'd simply be 1 place for Modders to congregate. Instead of having to check Nexus, Steam, X Game's personal Mod Portal, etc. you'd just have to check the Workshop. (IMO, the only reason why Nexus is still extremely popular is due to uncensored Mods and it already being established prior to Workshop. If Valve would only check/ban Mods that have malicious code in them but allow all the "risque" Mods... Nexus would have serious competition.)

Doesn't steam workshop only work for Steam Games in your library? So users that have purchased copy on say GOG would locked out of the Workshop.

I'd disagree on your opinion of why Nexus is popoular but we'll leave it at that as have a Steam Workshop vs Nexus banter would go off topic.

Though my major complaint with the factorio mod portal is bandwidth when downloading in game, this might just be me though.

[hellatze]

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

Because steam's workshop is nowhere as good as people claim it to be.

It forces people to use the latest version of every single mod regardless of what the changes would do to your current save, compatibility with other mods or game version.

Sure, it's easy to use, but that's the only plus side of the workshop over any semi-decent mod portal.

i click subscribe

i download the mod.

simple.

i dont like, i just unsub.

[brian_va]

Publicado originalmente por hellatze:

Publicado originalmente por Fel:

Because steam's workshop is nowhere as good as people claim it to be.

It forces people to use the latest version of every single mod regardless of what the changes would do to your current save, compatibility with other mods or game version.

Sure, it's easy to use, but that's the only plus side of the workshop over any semi-decent mod portal.

i click subscribe

i download the mod.

simple.

i dont like, i just unsub.

what do you do when the mod is incompatible with the current game version (steam gives no hint, rely purely on mod description)?

what do you do when the game/mod is updated causing conflicts with either the base game or other mods?

what do you do when the mod author throws a hissy fit and deletes the mod from the workshop, and steam helpfully removes that mod from your system?

what do you do when you want to revert to an older/newer game version, but are unable to tell is the mod version available in the workshop is compatible with the desired version?

i could continue, but the underlying theme is version control. Valve doesn't believe the commoners should be in control of such important things. that is my overwhelming problem with the workshop, but i can be more articulate and hateful if necessary.

[hellatze]

1. if uncompactible. wait until its compactible .

2. if update cause conflict. you can disable manually in game duh.

3. delete mod manually. just like you install mod manually in old factorio.

4. can't you read the mod description ? honestly all you problem can be solved by reading.

[brian_va]

so your solution is to just not use a mod? fair enough. some prefer a mod manager than handles version issues for them, but to each their own.

as for #4, the point was that you can know if a game update will cause a problem, but the workshop, and to a large degree steam itself, says go ♥♥♥♥ yourself when you want to use specific versions.

[hellatze]

you can also using both method.

people have preferences. i like using steam workshop because simple and easy to use.

this game mod installation are tedious.

[brian_va]

yeah, a one time registration to just hit an ingame menu button is certainly tedious. maybe trump can fix this if that whole greenland thing doesn't work out.

[hellatze]

Publicado originalmente por brian_va:

yeah, a one time registration to just hit an ingame menu button is certainly tedious. maybe trump can fix this if that whole greenland thing doesn't work out.

look troll. if you contribute nothing to topic. stay away.

also in game menu mod tend to fail to download on my laptop, so annoying and waste my time.

[brian_va]

works fine for me. maybe slap it a couple times, see if that helps. put some fear into your laptop

[Overeagerdragon]

Publicado originalmente por hellatze:

Publicado originalmente por brian_va:

yeah, a one time registration to just hit an ingame menu button is certainly tedious. maybe trump can fix this if that whole greenland thing doesn't work out.

look troll. if you contribute nothing to topic. stay away.

also in game menu mod tend to fail to download on my laptop, so annoying and waste my time.

He did; albeit sarcasticly he told you that Factorio's modportal is just as easy to use as Steam's workshop provided you can spare the 5 seconds to register a Factorio account.

In my case; I prefer Factorio's mod portal because of the version control KoS mentioned earlier AND the fact it downloads the mods as simple zip-archives so I don't have to go around bending sideways if I want to modify anything within those mods.
It's all a matter of preference though, imho. I have modding/coding experience so it's hardly a bother for me.
My opinion (again) is that the 2 hardly differ in the end. Steam's workshop allows for easy congregation and accessibility of mods for those who don't have that much coding experience at the cost of accessibility to the content of said mods whilst Factorio's modportal allows for easy access to mod-content but requires a teeny bit more effort to get access to the mods themselves.

Frankly; this thread reminds me of the eternal debate between consoles and PC-users over which one is better; it's a meaningless conversation because they both have their pro's and con's