[Not Resolved] In Game Mod Portal Issue

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

The in game mod portal has a problem that I think needs to be fixed. When moving to an experimental version, all mods are disabled and refuse to load, regardless of whether or not they work.
Editing one line the info.json to say it's compatible with the current version makes it work properly with the current version, the mods are not outdated and they DO work, the game just refuses to work with it.

Now that is out of the way, I feel suggest that the developers really need to fix it because I don't want to have to go through the trouble of editing every info.json to say the version I am using so I can play the experimental or future branch.

Edit: modified my wording to be clearer as I was giving off the wrong idea.

[Dinodod]

ok, so buy a honda civic car with that fancy new v12 engine that vipers use and tell honda to fix the car because the v12 works in a vipe but not the civic.

Seriously man... You need to really learn why they added that safety feature in the .json before you go opening your mouth.

1) The mod authors have not tested their mod with the new version so they can not say it works. Maybe it works for you but for someone else, it might break the game somehow. Programming 101.

2) The game developers designed the game with some safety guidelines in it to prevent more problems, It's like a safety on a gun. You can't make the gun developers not have it and neither will game developers. Programming 101

3) You can disble these safety features if you are too damn impatient to wait for the proper testing as you have done and play as you wish. Don't you dare complain about a mod breaking your game if you do

4) Don't upgrade till the mods are compatible. Go play Minecraft with mods. Oh wait, they use the same exact system for mod management. And I'm sure most other games do too. It's pretty much a defacto standard.

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

ok, so buy a honda civic car with that fancy new v12 engine that vipers use and tell honda to fix the car because the v12 works in a vipe but not the civic.

Seriously man... You need to really learn why they added that safety feature in the .json before you go opening your mouth.

1) The mod authors have not tested their mod with the new version so they can not say it works. Maybe it works for you but for someone else, it might break the game somehow. Programming 101.

2) The game developers designed the game with some safety guidelines in it to prevent more problems, It's like a safety on a gun. You can't make the gun developers not have it and neither will game developers. Programming 101

3) You can disble these safety features if you are too damn impatient to wait for the proper testing as you have done and play as you wish. Don't you dare complain about a mod breaking your game if you do

4) Don't upgrade till the mods are compatible. Go play Minecraft with mods. Oh wait, they use the same exact system for mod management. And I'm sure most other games do too. It's pretty much a defacto standard.

Please calm down, I didn't get mad and there's no reason for you to be. You're getting very emotional and hostile. I don't mean to sound hostile or rude so please don't get so mad at me. Your comments about opening my mouth, your irrelevant (and frankly confusing) allusions to cars, etc are highly inappropriate.

I've played many games with many mods, I know how the system works.

I'm not complaining about mods not working. They DO work, the game is just automatically disabling them when in actuality, they work with the current game.
None of what you said has any merit.

Your first point makes no sense because I'm not trying to run a mod that doesn't work. The mod DOES work because when I edit the file, it still works in game, just the version is off.
Your second point doesn't make sense. What does this have anything to do with a gun's safety? A gun's safety is so people don't get killed, this is a video game, no one will die if a mod is outdated. Can you please explain what we are being protected by here? What problems? How is this a safety measure? Why are you comparing a saftey measure to prevent people from being killed to it?
Your third point about a mod breaking my game? What do you mean by that? Why would I complain about my game being broken by a mod? My save couldn't get broken because them I could just revert. Also, how do I disable these "safety features" as you keep calling them?
Your fourth point is just plain derailing. I have played minecraft with mods, I have a curse account.

I have played many, many mods. I have more than 30 mods installed for RimWorld. I have NEVER touched vanilla atilla or rome 2 total war in my life and have several hundred hours of playing them with mods. I have MADE some mods for Kenshi and Stellaris, 3 of which have never needed to be updated since they were made and have always worked during each update. I have updated the one mod I made (the spiritualist - robot relation) mod that needed to be updated. This isn't my first time modding. I have played EU4 with many mods that have not been updated for months and still work fine today.

Mods don't automatically get outdated the second an update comes out. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Again, there's no reason for you to be upset with me. I wasn't aware there was a way to disable this, so please calm down. I'm sorry if I sound hostile or rude, but I don't mean to be.

[JustAnotherEngineer]

the exect oppaset (i give up on spelling) happened to me. all of my dissabled mods re-enabled and now i can't load the game!

[AlexMBrennan]

The in game mod portal is severely glitched. When moving to an experimental version, all mods are disabled and refuse to load, regardless of whether or not they work.
Editing one line the info.json to say it's compatible with the current version makes it work properly with the current version so no, before you say it, the mods are not outdated and they DO work, the game just refuses to work with it.

You are completely missing the point - the mod portal looks at the contents of the json file to determine if a mod works with the current version. It is not the package manager's job to second guess the decisions made by the mod authors.

Mods don't automatically get outdated the second an update comes out. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Correct - you can err on the side of caution and load only safe mods, or you can blindly load everything and have the game unpredctably crash. You can choose one or the other, but cannot say that there is only one valid choice.

Let's be realistic here - a lot of development effort has been spent on package mangers, and none of them come anywhere close to automatically working out dependencies in the way you want them to (e.g. dpkg cannot work out that Firefox 49.0-1 requires libcauro2>=1.2.4 - this information has to be provided by a human developer), so I would prepare for disappointment.

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi AlexMBrennan:

The in game mod portal is severely glitched. When moving to an experimental version, all mods are disabled and refuse to load, regardless of whether or not they work.
Editing one line the info.json to say it's compatible with the current version makes it work properly with the current version so no, before you say it, the mods are not outdated and they DO work, the game just refuses to work with it.

You are completely missing the point - the mod portal looks at the contents of the json file to determine if a mod works with the current version. It is not the package manager's job to second guess the decisions made by the mod authors.

Mods don't automatically get outdated the second an update comes out. Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Correct - you can err on the side of caution and load only safe mods, or you can blindly load everything and have the game unpredctably crash. You can choose one or the other, but cannot say that there is only one valid choice.

Let's be realistic here - a lot of development effort has been spent on package mangers, and none of them come anywhere close to automatically working out dependencies in the way you want them to (e.g. dpkg cannot work out that Firefox 49.0-1 requires libcauro2>=1.2.4 - this information has to be provided by a human developer), so I would prepare for disappointment.

I get what you're saying. The game crashing further in is a risk as it may not crash immediately if incompatible.

Thank you for explaining that to me, I appreciate the correction :)

Although I would like to be able to disable that feature just so I can blindly load in whatever mods I please because it usually works out well for me and cannot find anything when googling. But thaks for the good point.

[Dinodod]

Yes, I'm a bit annoyed by the way you seem to be demanding the devs 'fix' what is not broken.

... before you say it, the mods are not outdated and they DO work, the game just refuses to work with it.

... because I don't want to have to go through the trouble of editing every info.json to say the version I am using so I can play the experimental or future branch. ....

Now let me try to explain in simple terms hat I was trying to say the 1st time. I was making simple references to the gun and car as examples of how obsure your 'request' is.

1) Your first point makes no sense because I'm not trying to run a mod that doesn't work.

I don't know how else to say what I already said. The MOD author HAS NOT TESTED their mod with the new version of a game. So they can't say if their mod will cause an issue with the game. I can't be clearer on that point.

2) Your second point doesn't make sense. What does this have anything to do with a gun's safety?

I was only using it as a reference. All programmers design with a safety system to prevent their apps from crashing or causing issues with the PC. In this case, the version control prevents a new version of a game from using a non-current version of a mod which may not be compatible.

3) Well, you already know how to disable the safety by tricking the mod into being able to be used in the new version. But if it creates a problem, I can see you fuming over it and complaing that it needs to be fixed.

4) Version control is used in most programming as it ensures that a change in the code will work with everything else.


With 1 character in the code, I could make a program calculate things wrong and screw up everything. Or I could remove a chunk of code that I no longer need but a mod does.
This is how easy it is to screw up a program. This is why version control exists. This is why mods have a game version option in the file. You might think the mod works fine but you don't know what the game & mod are trying to do behind the scenes. It might make your CPU run @ 100% trying to calculate something because the mod was looking for something that doesn't exist in the game anymore. Who knows? Only the mod authors.

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

Yes, I'm a bit annoyed by the way you seem to be demanding the devs 'fix' what is not broken.

I never demanded anything, please don't put words in my mouth, no offense but there was no reason for you to be annoyed because there was no point where I ever demanded anything. I was just suggesting/asking something. Not sure if I was clear but I felt I clarified it before by saying "I feel that the developers" before I said what I said to imply I wasn't demanding, but rather suggesting. If I didn't say "i feel" and just said "the developers need" then that would be demanding. Sorry for the confusion.

Although thank you for clarifying your point with the reply, appreciate the feedback. Your points do have plenty of merit and I can see that now that you've clairifed.

Usually it isn't an issue and I don't get problems down the line when running outdated mods in other games I have played (unless its prison architect, and one incident in civ v I will admit, your points do have merit). That is why I wanted a way (and still do) to disable the auto disabler for the mod loader in game.

Again, very sorry if I was rude. (or am still rude and don't see it)

[Dinodod]

You played Minecraft with mods? Have you played with any of the large modpacks with over 100 mods? Do you see why there is version control yet?

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

You played Minecraft with mods? Have you played with any of the large modpacks with over 100 mods? Do you see why there is version control yet?

Yes I have. In fact I have made my own modpack on curse for 1.9. Includes major mods such as biomes o' plenty, salty mod, more player models, etc. I have also played tekkit and some varieties of bukkit.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying and that's my fault.

I'm not complaining about the existance of version control. I never said anything against version control.
I'm saying I want the option to disable it in the options just to try and see if the game will run without having to wait for updates to these mods.

[Dinodod]

I have not seen any game thus far give you an option for disabling the version control. it's a standard feature in programming and programmers won't allow you to easily disable it with an option.

Again, referring to my gun example, a lot of gun owners don't like the safety feature in their guns but gun manufacturers won't allow you to disable it. Same with Anti-lock brakes in a car or the ground plug in wiring or any safety feature in anything. Safety 1st. If you don't want the safety, then you can remove it but the manufacturer / game developer / mod author will not make it an option.

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

I have not seen any game thus far give you an option for disabling the version control. it's a standard feature in programming and programmers won't allow you to easily disable it with an option.

EU4
Total War Atilla
Rome 2
Stellaris
HOI4
CK2
RimWorld
Shogun 2
Civilization
Project Zomboid
Just to name a few.

They all allow you to run "outdated" mods

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

Again, referring to my gun example, a lot of gun owners don't like the safety feature in their guns but gun manufacturers won't allow you to disable it. Same with Anti-lock brakes in a car or the ground plug in wiring or any safety feature in anything. Safety 1st. If you don't want the safety, then you can remove it but the manufacturer / game developer / mod author will not make it an option.

This is a game, not a matter of life and death, so it is irrelevant. Plus, damage can easily be reversed with a video game by not saving or regular backups (backups are something everyone should do regularly)
Also, I'm calling strawman on your claim that some gun owners don't want a safety feature.

[Dinodod]

Well, I play only a limited set of games and excpet for Rim world, I don't play any of those games. But I haven't played rimworld in almost a year.

Again, I was only using a gun as a reference, Pick any device with a safety feature in it and they all work the same, hence my reference to the ground plug in a wire. Programming is no different. It may not be life and death but bad programming can do any number of things, from wasting CPU / GPU / RAM usage to literally wiping the HD before you know it (it's extermely difficult but it can happen)

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/man-accidentally-deletes-his-entire-company-with-one-line-of-bad-code-a6984256.html

So again, safety 1st.....

[Starfoth The Burgundy Silk Rug]

Nguyên văn bởi B.O.T.S.:

Well, I play only a limited set of games and excpet for Rim world, I don't play any of those games. But I haven't played rimworld in almost a year.

Again, I was only using a gun as a reference, Pick any device with a safety feature in it and they all work the same, hence my reference to the ground plug in a wire. Programming is no different. It may not be life and death but bad programming can do any number of things, from wasting CPU / GPU / RAM usage to literally wiping the HD before you know it (it's extermely difficult but it can happen)

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/man-accidentally-deletes-his-entire-company-with-one-line-of-bad-code-a6984256.html

So again, safety 1st.....

I am going to respectfully disagree, I doubt a mod could destroy my computer, but I may be wrong
Good discussion, you have good points, but I disagree

[Dinodod]

ok, no worries, I doubt a mod could do it too (like I said, it's very difficult). I was just trying to show you that versioning is nothing more than a safety feature to ensure you have an enjoyable experience playing with a game.

But as for the option to override that feature... probably not gonna happen but that's up to the dev.

I apologize for being so snappy earlier too. it's 2:00 am atm and I haven't slept in almost a day. Too much on my mind.

[AlexMBrennan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/man-accidentally-deletes-his-entire-company-with-one-line-of-bad-code-a6984256.html

Unfortunately for your argument this example turned out to be hoax http://www.hoax-slayer.net/deleted-entire-company-with-one-line-of-code-claim-turned-out-to-be-just-a-hoax/