Trains and stacking

[ChrisR]

Can someone tell me if this train set up will work with the right signals. It’s on a loop with 6 parking bays. I’ve got about 5 trains coming from 3 different mine outposts and feeding 3 unloading stations. All the stations are for copper. Each unload station has its own dedicated trains and mine outpost. They don’t share the same mines or trains.
Also because they each have their own trains. Will a second train wait in the stacker when it’s dedicated unload station is occupied but the other 2 unload stations become available?
I think aswell I need to remove the first bypass lane.
Many thanks

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331093

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331227

[Hedning]

Can't really tell for sure until you have placed your signals, but stackers work very well. This is because a stopped train adds a distance penalty, making the parking spaces further away count as closer by the next train. You just have to be careful so you don't place a signal so that a train can run ahead and block all other trains. This is what chain signals are for.

[Hedning]

Originally posted by ChrisR:

Will a second train wait in the stacker when it’s dedicated unload station is occupied but the other 2 unload stations become available?

A train will not go to a station it does not have in its schedule. If you want your trains to go to any of your unload stations you need to give all unload stations the same name. Otherwise yes they will wait in the stacker until its dedicated station becomes available.

If you do give them the same name then you will likely experience an unbalance because your trains will go to the closest one first unless occupied. This may or may not be a problem.

Also if you continue to build new unloading stations further and further away eventually a stopped train at the closest station will not add enough distance so a train in the stacker views it as further away than the farthest station, and then that far away station will not receive traffic at all unless you change something.

This picture is from 4 years ago, but the principle should still be the same: https://i.imgur.com/7QSPHEi.png
By adding waiting stations (W and W2) after the stacker I don't have to worry about distances. The trains balance themselves perfectly because they only consider the waiting stations when selecting route from the stacker.

[AlexMBrennan]

Can't really tell for sure until you have placed your signals, but stackers work very well. This is because a stopped train adds a distance penalty, making the parking spaces further away count as closer by the next train.

This isn't going to work here. The left "bypass" track needs to be guarded by a chain signals (or else you could get deadlocks) and trains will wait literally forever at this chain signal instead of taking a slight detour through the stacker.

If you want to use a "bypass" then it needs to be longer than the path through the stacker.

[Hedning]

Or just treat it as part of the stacker. The way he's laid the tracks as long as trains are just waiting for the first station this will remain clear and work as a bypass.

[knighttemplar1960]

The left bypass lane is not needed. You should remove it and you can simply expand the stacker farther to the right if you want to.

[Kiranos]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The left bypass lane is not needed. You should remove it and you can simply expand the stacker farther to the right if you want to.

This left bypass could even lead to a dead lock if all the trains are stacking in line for the up and middle station without using the stacker.

Also, be careful when building your loader before your station : you could end up with a one-tile offset with the wagons.

[[OTS]EchoZenLogos]

Originally posted by ChrisR:

Can someone tell me if this train set up will work with the right signals. It’s on a loop with 6 parking bays. I’ve got about 5 trains coming from 3 different mine outposts and feeding 3 unloading stations. All the stations are for copper. Each unload station has its own dedicated trains and mine outpost. They don’t share the same mines or trains.
Also because they each have their own trains. Will a second train wait in the stacker when it’s dedicated unload station is occupied but the other 2 unload stations become available?
I think aswell I need to remove the first bypass lane.
Many thanks

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331093

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331227

Your waiting area is fine, but it depends on the rail signals obviously if it will work well.

As far as the unloading stations go, I highly recommend having just one unloading station for every 3-5 "waiting areas" or so, and using good stack inserters on both sides of the train to unload each one more rapidly. With that kind of setup and considering the average time needed for a train to leave - find ore - then come back, you will be spending the majority of time with trains unloading at the unloading station, without overcomplicating the design.

If you want other unloading stations, it's easier to just have separate waiting areas for them and separate trains dedicated just to that unloading station, in my opinion. You could name the stations the same for unloading to make trains choose between them of course, such as having the same name for all 3 unloading stations. If done right, this "should" lead to each train routing itself to whatever station of the three is not occupied from the waiting area, but I'm not sure if that would lead to potential issues.

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Originally posted by ChrisR:

Will a second train wait in the stacker when it’s dedicated unload station is occupied but the other 2 unload stations become available?

A train will not go to a station it does not have in its schedule. If you want your trains to go to any of your unload stations you need to give all unload stations the same name. Otherwise yes they will wait in the stacker until its dedicated station becomes available.

If you do give them the same name then you will likely experience an unbalance because your trains will go to the closest one first unless occupied. This may or may not be a problem.

Also if you continue to build new unloading stations further and further away eventually a stopped train at the closest station will not add enough distance so a train in the stacker views it as further away than the farthest station, and then that far away station will not receive traffic at all unless you change something.

This picture is from 4 years ago, but the principle should still be the same: https://i.imgur.com/7QSPHEi.png
By adding waiting stations (W and W2) after the stacker I don't have to worry about distances. The trains balance themselves perfectly because they only consider the waiting stations when selecting route from the stacker.

Many thanks for that, that helps. I’ve put a pic below of my signals

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Can't really tell for sure until you have placed your signals, but stackers work very well. This is because a stopped train adds a distance penalty, making the parking spaces further away count as closer by the next train.

This isn't going to work here. The left "bypass" track needs to be guarded by a chain signals (or else you could get deadlocks) and trains will wait literally forever at this chain signal instead of taking a slight detour through the stacker.

If you want to use a "bypass" then it needs to be longer than the path through the stacker.

Brilliant thanks

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Or just treat it as part of the stacker. The way he's laid the tracks as long as trains are just waiting for the first station this will remain clear and work as a bypass.

Thanks, I’ve added a pic with my signals below

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The left bypass lane is not needed. You should remove it and you can simply expand the stacker farther to the right if you want to.

Cheers for that

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by Kiranos:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The left bypass lane is not needed. You should remove it and you can simply expand the stacker farther to the right if you want to.

This left bypass could even lead to a dead lock if all the trains are stacking in line for the up and middle station without using the stacker.

Also, be careful when building your loader before your station : you could end up with a one-tile offset with the wagons.

Thanks, I’ve had that before where I build my unloaded then station , and I was out. That was annoying ha ha. I’ve put a pic below of my signals, hope it’s right

[ChrisR]

Originally posted by Echonian:

Originally posted by ChrisR:

Can someone tell me if this train set up will work with the right signals. It’s on a loop with 6 parking bays. I’ve got about 5 trains coming from 3 different mine outposts and feeding 3 unloading stations. All the stations are for copper. Each unload station has its own dedicated trains and mine outpost. They don’t share the same mines or trains.
Also because they each have their own trains. Will a second train wait in the stacker when it’s dedicated unload station is occupied but the other 2 unload stations become available?
I think aswell I need to remove the first bypass lane.
Many thanks

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331093

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815331227

Your waiting area is fine, but it depends on the rail signals obviously if it will work well.

As far as the unloading stations go, I highly recommend having just one unloading station for every 3-5 "waiting areas" or so, and using good stack inserters on both sides of the train to unload each one more rapidly. With that kind of setup and considering the average time needed for a train to leave - find ore - then come back, you will be spending the majority of time with trains unloading at the unloading station, without overcomplicating the design.

If you want other unloading stations, it's easier to just have separate waiting areas for them and separate trains dedicated just to that unloading station, in my opinion. You could name the stations the same for unloading to make trains choose between them of course, such as having the same name for all 3 unloading stations. If done right, this "should" lead to each train routing itself to whatever station of the three is not occupied from the waiting area, but I'm not sure if that would lead to potential issues.

Many thanks, so you saying have a parking area for each of my 3 unload stations. I was going to just have 1 unload station but that means having large trains. I’ve basically got 5 red belts coming off in total off those unload stations. So I would need multiple large trains to supply that station. I’ve only got stack inserter bonus 3 which is 7.86 from chest to belt

[ChrisR]

Thanks everyone for their help. I’m really starting to enjoy trains now, so much fun. This is what I came up with. Are these signals correct. They seem to work when I test with temporary trains. Hope it works when it’s all up and running properly. I’ve got 1 chain signal going into stacker then a rail signal just after on each parking bay. Then on the exit from parking bay, I’ve got chain signals, then a rail signal in front of each unload station.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815709149

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815709095

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by ChrisR:

Thanks everyone for their help. I’m really starting to enjoy trains now, so much fun. This is what I came up with. Are these signals correct. They seem to work when I test with temporary trains. Hope it works when it’s all up and running properly. I’ve got 1 chain signal going into stacker then a rail signal just after on each parking bay. Then on the exit from parking bay, I’ve got chain signals, then a rail signal in front of each unload station.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815709149

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2815709095

It should work like that except that you will want chain signals on the end of (exit from) your loading stations instead of rail signals and for the exact same reason you have them at the exit from your stacker.