Nuclear design review

[Arcane]

I did a Nuclear setup and it was pretty tricky to do well. I saw a lot of examples online but all of them seemed bad for one reason or another.

What are my requirements:
- No endless containers of Uranium-238
- No waste after and complete recycling and waste reuse.
- Self-balancing setup in terms of ore consumption. Should not pull more ore than needed to have it running.
- Does not stop ever. No maintenance.
- Covarex does not stop when needed and can pause when not needed. Has to be able to self restart too.

What it looks like now:
https://imgur.com/69bpoh4

Please comment if there are any long term issues? So far it has been working for a few hours without any.

[Khagan]

The best way to stop the used catalyst from Kovarex clogging up the output belt is to loop it back to the input again (e.g. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=100351 ).
Stashing the overflow in chests is fragile.

[kremlin]

Best possible advice: You're way overthinking it. Don't be afraid of buffering processed uranium, especially since you're converting it using kovarex enrichment. It's better to have a box full of fuel ready to go than have to start from the ore patch if your system does manage to grind to a halt.

[Arcane]

Originally posted by Khagan:

The best way to stop the used catalyst from Kovarex clogging up the output belt is to loop it back to the input again (e.g. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=100351 ).
Stashing the overflow in chests is fragile.

Shows that you didn't read the post and just gave a generic advice. Your advice is correct and that is exactly the goal of my design.

No I don't want to copy a blueprint from someone, I want to design the system myself. So I am asking to take a look at my design and say if there are any issues.

[Arcane]

Originally posted by kremlin:

Best possible advice: You're way overthinking it. Don't be afraid of buffering processed uranium, especially since you're converting it using kovarex enrichment. It's better to have a box full of fuel ready to go than have to start from the ore patch if your system does manage to grind to a halt.

This is the goal of the game, is it not? ;D
I can simplify the constraints and do it easier. I can, but I don't want to.

"We choose to build a self-sustaining Nuclear setup and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." - J.F. Kennedy

:D

[sbszine]

Just did this as a minimal proof of concept. No waste, no maintenance, self sustaining. Just chuck a fuel reprocessor upstream of it and you're done. It's not as space efficient as your design but I'm sure you could optimise it. Stretch goals in the screenshot caption.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2806221166

[astrosha]

Self-sustaining nuclear fuel processing is simple. It does tend to lead to stockpiling, whether it be Nuclear Fuel Cells, U235, and/or U238. Backpressure (no place for the machine to put something, so it stops making more) is a good thing. Just be sure to place some kind of limit on how much gets stockpiled.

And use those stockpiles to determine when to resume Uranium Processing.

I say this because the following two requirements appear to contradict each other :

Originally posted by Arcane:

What are my requirements:
- No endless containers of Uranium-238
- Does not stop ever. No maintenance.

Of course, that second quoted requirement is then contradicted by this one :

- Covarex does not stop when needed and can pause when not needed. Has to be able to self restart too.

So long as you have 80 U235 in the Kovarex machine, it will happily suck down a few U238 that wander by and let any U235 pass, occasionally spitting out a brand new U235. In this case, it is basically self-restarting once you wave some U238 at it. And the easiest way to do that is to make more by processing Uranium Ore. Thus, the best thing to do is let the system store the U238 that the Centrifuges make until they have also made enough U235 for a Kovarex machine, then let that machine build its 40 U235 into 80 before it spits the newly produced U235 out.

Control the Uranium Ore to the Centrifuges processing it, based on the stockpile (a few chests, nothing too excessive, mostly determined by how much U238 is produced waiting for enough U235), to start or stop the whole process. Remember, you get a whole lot more U238 from Uranium Processing, and you use the Kovarex Process to supplement the U235 by turning 3 U238 into a U235.

All that said .. so long as your process works, that's good. How many reactors are you feeding? One Kovarex Centrifuge can feed around 33 reactors, if my math is right, assuming its fed by a single Uranium Processing Centrifuge. (33 1/3 Reactors, to be precise, according to my math.)

[Arcane]

Originally posted by sbszine:

Just did this as a minimal proof of concept. No waste, no maintenance, self sustaining. Just chuck a fuel reprocessor upstream of it and you're done. It's not as space efficient as your design but I'm sure you could optimise it. Stretch goals in the screenshot caption.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2806221166

This is basically just Covarex setup. It does not include all the other parts of the design.

- This does not include reprocessing of USED FUEL CELLS.
- It does not include controlled input of new Uranium from the miners and stopping the miners.

[Arcane]

Originally posted by astrosha:

Self-sustaining nuclear fuel processing is simple. It does tend to lead to stockpiling,

I know that simple design allow to do it but it violates my requirement of stockpiling. Which is something I wanted to solve with my design. And I did solve it well. My design has no output nor stockpiling of Uranium.

Originally posted by astrosha:

I say this because the following two requirements appear to contradict each other :

Originally posted by Arcane:

What are my requirements:
- No endless containers of Uranium-238
- Does not stop ever. No maintenance.

Of course, that second quoted requirement is then contradicted by this one :

- Covarex does not stop when needed and can pause when not needed. Has to be able to self restart too.

Does not stop requirement is about output of Nuclear fuel cells. If it is stockpiled, then everything should stop including ore mining. Maybe not formulated the best way.
Same with the last one. Covarex has to be able to stop and restart when U-235 is backed up.
Mining has to be able to stop and restart when needed.

Originally posted by astrosha:

So long as you have 80 U235 in the Kovarex machine, it will happily suck down a few U238 that wander by and let any U235 pass, occasionally spitting out a brand new U235. In this case, it is basically self-restarting once you wave some U238 at it. And the easiest way to do that is to make more by processing Uranium Ore. Thus, the best thing to do is let the system store the U238 that the Centrifuges make until they have also made enough U235 for a Kovarex machine, then let that machine build its 40 U235 into 80 before it spits the newly produced U235 out.

Control the Uranium Ore to the Centrifuges processing it, based on the stockpile (a few chests, nothing too excessive, mostly determined by how much U238 is produced waiting for enough U235), to start or stop the whole process. Remember, you get a whole lot more U238 from Uranium Processing, and you use the Kovarex Process to supplement the U235 by turning 3 U238 into a U235.

Yeah it seems to work. I built it with a bit different ideas than what you are talking about.
- I have an endless loop of U-238 that works with yellow inserters and one chest.
- And input of ore from miners is controlled by belt circuit reading from the belt after the U-238 loop. It gives a signal if it has U-238 on top of the belt or not. When there is no U-238 then activate the inserter from the miners.

Originally posted by astrosha:

How many reactors are you feeding? One Kovarex Centrifuge can feed around 33 reactors, if my math is right, assuming its fed by a single Uranium Processing Centrifuge. (33 1/3 Reactors, to be precise, according to my math.)

I have 4 reactors for now. But factory must grow. you know. :D

[Khagan]

Originally posted by Arcane:

Originally posted by Khagan:

The best way to stop the used catalyst from Kovarex clogging up the output belt is to loop it back to the input again (e.g. https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=100351 ).
Stashing the overflow in chests is fragile.

Shows that you didn't read the post and just gave a generic advice. Your advice is correct and that is exactly the goal of my design.

I read your post and I looked at the image you linked. The image does not show the output catalyst being looped back, but instead shows it going into chests, which is why I made the comment I did.

[Khagan]

Originally posted by Arcane:

Originally posted by sbszine:

Just did this as a minimal proof of concept.

This is basically just Covarex setup. It does not include all the other parts of the design.

- This does not include reprocessing of USED FUEL CELLS.
- It does not include controlled input of new Uranium from the miners and stopping the miners.

And quite right too. There are multiple consumers of uranium, so it is sensible to treat the production (mining, initial processing, kovarex) completely separately from the consumption (production and recycling of fuel cells, military uses, vehicle fuel). And you don't have to control the miners: like everything else in Factorio they will automatically stop when their output is backed up.

[pinki.narf]

The imgur page doesn't come up for me - still, I clicked around a lot and was able to simplify my Covarex enrichment.
Turn off? When the output box is full, the centrifuges already stop working ;)
Until then, excess uranium 238 (dark) will be output when re-injecting if the inflow is sufficient.

https://fbe.teoxoy.com/?source=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

[Arcane]

Originally posted by Khagan:

I read your post and I looked at the image you linked. The image does not show the output catalyst being looped back, but instead shows it going into chests, which is why I made the comment I did.

Gotcha. Yeah those boxes are not connected to anything. Just artifact of a previous version. I have no storage whatsoever in this design.

[Stellar Remnant]

Originally posted by Arcane:

I did a Nuclear setup and it was pretty tricky to do well. I saw a lot of examples online but all of them seemed bad for one reason or another.

What are my requirements:
- No endless containers of Uranium-238
- No waste after and complete recycling and waste reuse.
- Self-balancing setup in terms of ore consumption. Should not pull more ore than needed to have it running.
- Does not stop ever. No maintenance.
- Covarex does not stop when needed and can pause when not needed. Has to be able to self restart too.

What it looks like now:
https://imgur.com/69bpoh4

Please comment if there are any long term issues? So far it has been working for a few hours without any.

Looks good to me. Nice to see unique solutions.

[Mike Garrison]

I know you didn't ask about this, but FWIW my main consumption of uranium is actually for ammo. I like to have a big stockpile of depleted uranium so that I can feed my green ammo machines, and that mainly controls whether I need mining. The occasional 0.7% U235, supplemented by the Kovarex process, is plenty to just keep the reactor hot and the lights on.

[sbszine]

Originally posted by Arcane:

This is basically just Covarex setup. It does not include all the other parts of the design.

- This does not include reprocessing of USED FUEL CELLS.
- It does not include controlled input of new Uranium from the miners and stopping the miners.

I mentioned in the caption that used fuel cell processing should be upstream of this. Can I ask why you want to stop and start miners rather than letting them back up a belt?