Rails and Purple Science

[Stephen of Blois]

I have calculated the number of rail machines (ASM2) needed to produce 1 purple science pack per second (using ASM2) and have compared it to the number provided by the helmod calculator. Both my calculation and the helmod calculator gave the same value which was 4 assembly 2 machines.

What I have observed is that this number of rail machines doesn't seem to give enough throughput to get to all the 10 purple science assembly machines needed for 1 per second.

I'm wondering if there is anything obvious that is wrong with the calculations for the number of rail ASM2 s.

[Khagan]

Make sure that your belts and inserters are keeping up with the demand (and the output). This is the point in the main science sequence where the sheer volume required is most challenging.

[Nico]

Theoretically 4 for rails are even more than enough for 10 purples, so I don't know what you are doing wrong. I guess you also would have noticed if a belt is too slow to transport it, even though this also shouldn't be the case. It also can't be a power shortage, since then the purples should get slowed down by the same amount. Idk .... maybe you use too slow inserters? Did you actually check if all assembly machines are working nonstop?

[brian_va]

4 machines will overload a single side of a yellow belt when unloading onto 1 side, if thats what you have going on. assuming there isnt a resource supply shortage somewhere along the chain

see if this calculator agrees with the math you are using for the production chain
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-1-19&rate=s&min=2&items=production-science-pack:r:1

[knighttemplar1960]

Depending on how you have it set up your bottle neck may be the iron stick production.

If you have one assembly machine II directly feeding iron sticks into 2 of your rail machines the inserter swing time may be the issue.

[Stephen of Blois]

Originally posted by brian_va:

4 machines will overload a single side of a yellow belt when unloading onto 1 side, if thats what you have going on. assuming there isnt a resource supply shortage somewhere along the chain

see if this calculator agrees with the math you are using for the production chain
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-1-19&rate=s&min=2&items=production-science-pack:r:1

I am unloading 4 rail machines onto a single side of a yellow belt. I do see that at least one set of inserters has no room for output. I'll try rearranging, putting some machines on the other side of the belt. However, I thought the 4 machines are giving 5 rails per second - maybe I'm wrong and it's 10 per second.

Thank you for the calculator link. If I understand it correctly, this calculator gives the same result.

[Stephen of Blois]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Depending on how you have it set up your bottle neck may be the iron stick production.

If you have one assembly machine II directly feeding iron sticks into 2 of your rail machines the inserter swing time may be the issue.

I am using one stick machine to support two rail machines - so maybe I do have a problem. It doesn't look like there's an issue, but I will look more closely. I thought the direct insertion would make things more efficient. Thank you.

[brian_va]

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

Originally posted by brian_va:

4 machines will overload a single side of a yellow belt when unloading onto 1 side, if thats what you have going on. assuming there isnt a resource supply shortage somewhere along the chain

see if this calculator agrees with the math you are using for the production chain
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-1-19&rate=s&min=2&items=production-science-pack:r:1

I am unloading 4 rail machines onto a single side of a yellow belt. I do see that at least one set of inserters has no room for output. I'll try rearranging, putting some machines on the other side of the belt. However, I thought the 4 machines are giving 5 rails per second - maybe I'm wrong and it's 10 per second.

Thank you for the calculator link. If I understand it correctly, this calculator gives the same result.

rearranging stuff is a solution, could also just drop in some red belts to give you 15 per second per side, so enough throughput for your current setup; at least until you expand your requirements.

[Hurkyl]

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

I do see that at least one set of inserters has no room for output. I'll try rearranging, putting some machines on the other side of the belt.

Another thing you can do is at the halfway point, you can adjust the belt so that it dumps all of the goods onto the inner lane of the belt. That way you can have all of the assemblers on one side of the belt, and have them feeding both sides.

However, I thought the 4 machines are giving 5 rails per second - maybe I'm wrong and it's 10 per second.

You do need 10 rails per second to make 1 purple science per second. And 4 machines are enough because each production cycle produces 2 rails rather than just 1.

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

I am using one stick machine to support two rail machines - so maybe I do have a problem. It doesn't look like there's an issue, but I will look more closely. I thought the direct insertion would make things more efficient. Thank you.

Direct insertion is indeed faster. You need two fast inserters to keep up with the 2.5 stick per second output you need, so you should be fine with the output of your stick maker if one maker is feeding two rail makers.

The bigger problem is the rail makers, which also need to be producing 2.5 items per second, and so you still need two fast inserters to keep up.

But you don't need to calculate this; once you solve your belt problem, you can recognize this problem from the fact that the assembler will briefly stop because its output slot is full.

One fast inserter will be fine here if you get enough inserter capacity research so they have a stack size of 2.

[Stephen of Blois]

Originally posted by Hurkyl:

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

I do see that at least one set of inserters has no room for output. I'll try rearranging, putting some machines on the other side of the belt.

Another thing you can do is at the halfway point, you can adjust the belt so that it dumps all of the goods onto the inner lane of the belt. That way you can have all of the assemblers on one side of the belt, and have them feeding both sides.

However, I thought the 4 machines are giving 5 rails per second - maybe I'm wrong and it's 10 per second.

You do need 10 rails per second to make 1 purple science per second. And 4 machines are enough because each production cycle produces 2 rails rather than just 1.

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

I am using one stick machine to support two rail machines - so maybe I do have a problem. It doesn't look like there's an issue, but I will look more closely. I thought the direct insertion would make things more efficient. Thank you.

Direct insertion is indeed faster. You need two fast inserters to keep up with the 2.5 stick per second output you need, so you should be fine with the output of your stick maker if one maker is feeding two rail makers.

The bigger problem is the rail makers, which also need to be producing 2.5 items per second, and so you still need two fast inserters to keep up.

But you don't need to calculate this; once you solve your belt problem, you can recognize this problem from the fact that the assembler will briefly stop because its output slot is full.

One fast inserter will be fine here if you get enough inserter capacity research so they have a stack size of 2.

Thank you. I have modified things based on all the comments and I think I'm now getting the throughput you would expect. In addition to changing inserter types, I moved half the rail machines to the other side of the belt which made a big difference.

[Kiranos]

Originally posted by Stephen of Blois:

Originally posted by brian_va:

4 machines will overload a single side of a yellow belt when unloading onto 1 side, if thats what you have going on. assuming there isnt a resource supply shortage somewhere along the chain

see if this calculator agrees with the math you are using for the production chain
https://kirkmcdonald.github.io/calc.html#data=1-1-19&rate=s&min=2&items=production-science-pack:r:1

I am unloading 4 rail machines onto a single side of a yellow belt. I do see that at least one set of inserters has no room for output. I'll try rearranging, putting some machines on the other side of the belt. However, I thought the 4 machines are giving 5 rails per second - maybe I'm wrong and it's 10 per second.

Thank you for the calculator link. If I understand it correctly, this calculator gives the same result.

2 rail produced in 0.5 sec (or 4 rail/sec) at 1 crafting time.
Assembling Machine 2 : 0,75 crafting time.
So you're producing for 1 assembling machine 3 rails / sec.
With 4 assembling machine, it's 12 rails / sec.

1 yellow belt is 15 items / sec FOR BOTH LINE.
So if you're outputing on only 1 yellow lane, you can't have more than 7,5 items / sec and that's where is your bottleneck.

Upgrading to red belt will solve this without redoing anything. (15 items / sec PER LANE).