Is Factorio Strategy, Simulation or Survival? (or all three)

[Drizzt]

Was just looking at my library and the categories i have various games in, and noticed some gaps (i.e. games that should probably be in more categories). Personally i think i might categorise Factorio as a Simulation with a Survival theme and a Strategy (RTS) interface. Maybe further specifying the Simulation aspect to be Base Building, Materials Management and Automation Simulation.

I know it's just semantics and whimsical, but i thought it might be interesting to see how people might categorise it, and which genre features stand out the most, or are most enjoyable for them

And it might be a refreshing change from discussing the price ;-)

EDIT: should just mention that i have 2000+ hours in the game, so i'm not asking as a new player - more just interested to see what people think - but it also may be of interest to new players

UPDATE: thread started well - posts #1 through #18 have some interesting stuff - there was then a little derailment for 25 or so posts - but that was cleared up so hopefully the friendly discussion may continue :-)

UPDATE 2: it did :-)

[Fel]

It's definitely not survival, the enemies can be kept at bay quite easily.

It's more a management game than anything else for me.
Most of what you do is manage the supply lines to make sure that everything runs well, increasing existing parts when needed and adding new parts as you unlock them through research.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Fel:

It's definitely not survival, the enemies can be kept at bay quite easily.

i suppose for me the survival part comes from several things:

1. i play with one life
- getting hit by train = game over
- getting too Rambo when clearing biter nests = game over

2. you can game over when going for the Lazy B*stard achievement
- use at least 106 of your crafts (or more if you have some components stored)
- manage to have your only water pump destroyed
- if you can't build a new one without going over the craft limit = game over
(since electricity is required for assemblers)

3. the factory must grow
- i feel that we are constantly trying to tap new resources to feed the factory
- and if the factory runs out of resources it dies
- it is possible to run out of resources and have all new sources blocked by biters

and so i guess that i find it to be survival, but the protagonist is the factory rather than the engineer (although if the factory stalls, they ain't getting home)

plus the first half hour or so can feel very survival - hand mining coal rocks and trees and hand feeding burners while scouting the area and trying not to attract the attention of the biters

[jagholin]

You can still make enemies more threatening by tweaking settings or adding mods, but yes it's not really a "survival" game. It doesn't have anything like hunger or thirst mechanics for once.

At its core it is more a base-building/simulation game, inspired by some minecraft modpacks(like tekkit). But it's very configurable/moddable so you can find scenarios or mods that shift focus somewhat to different gameplay styles

[AlexMBrennan]

Most games can be classified as "survival" games so I don't think that that genre is particularly useful. To quote Wikipedia:

Survival games are a sub-genre of action video games, usually set in hostile, intense, open-world environments. Players generally begin with minimal equipment and are required to survive as long as possible by crafting tools, weapons, shelters, and collecting resources. Many survival games are based on randomly or procedurally generated persistent environments; more recently, survival games are often playable online, allowing players to interact in a single world.

I don't think that Factorio is a simulation because unlike classical simulations like Sim City, MS Flight Simulator or KSP you are not simulating anything. Factorio is more an RTS-themed puzzle game (how do you arrange your belts to build and arm sentry turrets before they overrun your base?)

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Jagh:

yes it's not really a "survival" game. It doesn't have anything like hunger or thirst mechanics for once.

agreed, but above and beyond the post above where i suggested that the factory is the thing that needs to eat and drink (both solids and fluids - and it can also sleep at night if using solar power with no batteries - possible if not yet struck oil)

i also used suggested that it has a "Survival Theme" rather than an over abundance of survival mechanics - i.e. you are stranded with no equipment or resources and need to survive and build a base that will eventually allow you to escape

smells a bit of survival ;-)

plus the first bit is basically punching a tree and building a workbench a la Minecraft :-)

[Overeagerdragon]

I've always described it as a basebuilding resource management game mainly due to the idea you really need to tweak the game in order for it to become even remotely survival but even on the lowest settings the basebuilding and resource management aspects are always there.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

Most games can be classified as "survival" games so I don't think that that genre is particularly useful. To quote Wikipedia:

Survival games are a sub-genre of action video games, usually set in hostile, intense, open-world environments. Players generally begin with minimal equipment and are required to survive as long as possible by crafting tools, weapons, shelters, and collecting resources. Many survival games are based on randomly or procedurally generated persistent environments; more recently, survival games are often playable online, allowing players to interact in a single world.

I don't think that Factorio is a simulation because unlike classical simulations like Sim City, MS Flight Simulator or KSP you are not simulating anything. Factorio is more an RTS-themed puzzle game (how do you arrange your belts to build and arm sentry turrets before they overrun your base?)

i would say that the definition they give is pretty good, but does not cover most games - only those that involve resource gathering and crafting - and while many games include such features to some degree, they are often very light, while Factorio's are part of its core

but i agree that Survival can be thought of more as a theme than the core genre

and while i also agree to an extent with the RTS-themed puzzle game comment - i think it is simulating too many systems to be classed as simply a puzzle game - especially since it can be played in so many different ways

i would say that Infinifactory would be the puzzle game to Factorio's mix of puzzle, sim, survival and strategy

[jagholin]

Survival games usually convey some sense of urgency through their various mechanics and factorio doesn't have that. You can take your time finishing your builds or just relax, do nothing and enjoy the view of trains and items moving on belts. You can have your homebrew rules like having only 1 life, but factorio doesn't have a hardcore mode. You can always just respawn.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Overeagerdragon:

I've always described it as a basebuilding resource management game mainly due to the idea you really need to tweak the game in order for it to become even remotely survival but even on the lowest settings the basebuilding and resource management aspects are always there.

agreed - i certainly think the base building and resource management are the core - and actually i think simulation may well be the tag that can be applied to more things than it necessarily warrants

although i do feel that Factorio may warrant the simulation tag due to the simulation of supply and processing lines - as well as things like fossil fuel processing, fluid flow, solar power, trains, and the circuit and logistic networks

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Jagh:

Survival games usually convey some sense of urgency through their various mechanics and factorio doesn't have that. You can take your time finishing your builds or just relax, do nothing and enjoy the view of trains and items moving on belts. You can have your homebrew rules like having only 1 life, but factorio doesn't have a hardcore mode. You can always just respawn.

i agree that Factorio does not enforce a single life - but it is a wonderfully simple way to create that sense of urgency (and something i use in almost every game i play, from Factorio to Fallout 4)

[luponix]

just because you set a one life rule doesnt make the game survival though otherwise you could label pretty much everything a survival game

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by luponix:

just because you set a one life rule doesnt make the game survival though otherwise you could label pretty much everything a survival game

i was specifically responding to the previous poster's point about a sense of urgency

there are plenty of other aspects of Factorio that relate to survival (see earlier posts - it's not a big thread and so there are only 10 before yours)

EDIT: decided to list a few for ease of use:
- resource gathering
- power requirements
- day/night cycle (that affects power resources)
- the factory itself will stall if it is not kept fed with resources

but as mentioned, there is more detail about these points in earlier posts

the relentless horde of attackers probably counts too (although maybe that can be considered more tower defense - but with one life it can make things pretty tense, especially when scouting or expanding - plus they add to the urgency)

[knighttemplar1960]

Its kind of a combination tower defense, resource management, logistics management game. There are elements of all three and you can tweak the various setting to make it more or less of one or the other before you start.

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

I don't think that Factorio is a simulation because unlike classical simulations like Sim City, MS Flight Simulator or KSP you are not simulating anything

i would argue that yes, it isn't a:
- City Simulation (Sim City)
- Flight Simulation (MS Flight Simulator)
- Spacecraft Building and Flight Simulation (KSP)

but it is an:
- Automation Simulation
- Production Line Simulation
- Train Signalling and Scheduling Simulation
- Circuitry Simulation

maybe even simply a Large Scale Factory Simulation?

someone built a brain into it (Grey Goo) - hard to do that in something that isn't simulating anything....

EDIT: in fact maybe this is a more appropriate usage for your assertion that everything is a survival game - arguably more computer games could be considered simulations than anything else - from Pong (Table Tennis Simulation) right on down

[Darth A.R.T.H.E.R.]

Originally posted by Drizzt:

Originally posted by Jagh:

yes it's not really a "survival" game. It doesn't have anything like hunger or thirst mechanics for once.

agreed, but above and beyond the post above where i suggested that the factory is the thing that needs to eat and drink (both solids and fluids - and it can also sleep at night if using solar power with no batteries - possible if not yet struck oil)

i also used suggested that it has a "Survival Theme" rather than an over abundance of survival mechanics - i.e. you are stranded with no equipment or resources and need to survive and build a base that will eventually allow you to escape

smells a bit of survival ;-)

plus the first bit is basically punching a tree and building a workbench a la Minecraft :-)

I find this argument to be something of a stretch. Resource management already sits comfortably within the category of strategy. Though, I do enjoy considering the factory a living breathing entity. For general use, this would likely lead to confusion. The game does not specifically have mechanics to give the factory sentience (yet).

Therefore it is the finding of this entity that the tag survival not be used as it would likely lead to missed expectations. Much like my relationships.