Just a thought about a feature.....

[Drizzt]

Just had a thought while posting in another thread about the various milestones in the game (blue science, launching the rocket etc)

I have launched the rocket in the current era of science, and i have also done it in one or more previous eras:
- i think once when yellow and purple had different recipes, and the different level of assemblers allowed different item counts
- and once back when i think blue was the highest tech other than alien tech

(but it's been 2000+ hours and i am a habitual restarter - so other than knowing i've done it a few times at different tech levels i can't be precise lol)

but the point is i was thinking about the tech tree, and how newer players might like a "Lite" version of it, and how that's really the only bit of the game that isn't customizable in vanilla

and i guess there may well be mods for this, but since there is an expansion in the future, or if the mods don't quite do this (since my idea involves some interface stuff), i thought i would suggest it anyway

so i reckon it would be pretty cool to be able to have an edit mode for the tech tree:
- and basically be able to drag things around to change which techs lead to which other techs
- and also change which items are related to which techs
- and have options about whether items can be automatically reallocated when you lock off or change part of the tech tree, or if it just puts up a list of stuff that you have locked off so you can drag stuff to the tech you want it to rely on (or just leave the item locked away)

so i am sure a single technology tree remap can be done by manually modifying the lua files and saving it as a mod (which i will probably have a go at) - but obviously that's lots of modifying of text files, and a user would need to make a separate mod for each different tech tree

and i think they even have a mechanism to make custom UIs using what's in the game - but that's probably way beyond my little brain lol

so just a thought that if it doesn't exist and can be done with the existing modding tools then it would be a cool mod idea

or otherwise a nice feature for the future

since while the game is great (truly great) and the complexity makes for a great feeling of achievement
- i reckon even experienced players might enjoy some more variation to their games
- or more chilled or challenging games, where they can reorganize the order they get stuff
- or lock some tech off
- plus could even add the ability to add extra tech levels using the same interface
- and newer players could simplify things or start with more tech unlocked

i assume that lots of mods make their own tech trees (i'm still vanilla after 2000+ hours, but i really do mean to play Krastorio 2 and Space Exploration soon lol)

but as mentioned those are still single tech trees, rather than this dynamic option that i am suggesting

so an in game interface could add that variety for experienced players, while also allowing for simpler presets to be included for newer players - and for them to make their own

anyway - just a thought - not suggesting that the game isn't truly awesome as it is, and one of the most polished and player focused works of gaming genius ever to grace the PC - just a thought for a nice little feature that either some modding genius could see about making - or that might make it into the expansion that i imagine we are all wonderfully excited for, but also willing to wait patiently until the appropriate time :-)

especially someone like me who still hasn't cracked the seal on the mod portal yet (have downloaded the two big ones i mentioned, but i plan to get all the achievements on vanilla before i start with mods lol)

anyway - just thought would share a thought

happy Factorio-ing :-)

[jagholin]

Changing or completely remaking the tech tree is definitely possible already, there are many mods that do this as part of their functionality. Of course you have to program in lua in order to do this (or "program" since what you do is only changing data structure value, in terms of complexity it's more like writing a config file).

Now do we need some nice UI to edit this stuff in a more user-friendly way? Perhaps, but I don't think it's a job for factorio devs. If there is a necessity, there is nothing stopping a community member from creating this tool, even make it open-source. The only question is if there is really enough demand for it to justify the time investment.

[TaylorItaly]

There is a mod "Tech shuffle" , which do that what you suggest. Try it out....

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by TaylorItaly:

There is a mod "Tech shuffle" , which do that what you suggest. Try it out....

Thanks - i can see a mod called Al's Science Shuffle (and a fork of it call Chem's Science Shuffle), as well as one called Randotorio

only Chem's Science Shuffle looks to be updated to 1.1 (others are 0.18 though, so shouldn't be too much of a prob)

only thing i would say is that these look like they only randomize the tech tree, rather than allowing a re-design

definitely looks like they are a part of the puzzle though, and thanks for the reply :-)

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Jagh:

Changing or completely remaking the tech tree is definitely possible already, there are many mods that do this as part of their functionality. Of course you have to program in lua in order to do this (or "program" since what you do is only changing data structure value, in terms of complexity it's more like writing a config file).

Thanks - yes i had a little go myself and was able to modify the tech tree. And i know there are mods that change it (and as seen by the other posts, mods that shuffle it as well). But with the shufflers it is random, and with the others it is one remap per mod (i think) - and obviously it has to be hand coded. So was not quite what i was getting at.

Originally posted by Jagh:

Now do we need some nice UI to edit this stuff in a more user-friendly way? Perhaps, but I don't think it's a job for factorio devs. If there is a necessity, there is nothing stopping a community member from creating this tool, even make it open-source. The only question is if there is really enough demand for it to justify the time investment.

Yes i agree that it would be a good mod project - and it is only worth the devs integrating it into the expansion or a sequel if there is shown to be interest for the feature.

However, i suspect that it would be a major job for a modder to get the UI system i suggested into the game (if it is even possible) - in which case it would need to be an external tool where one could modify the tech tree and then get it to output each new remap to its own mod.

I suspect it would be a lot of work to actually load in the graphics to an external tool and set up a nice interface - but most of that part is already built in to the game - and so a mechanism to move techs and products around the tree and then save them as a preset may well not be a huge task for the devs - who are professionals who have access to all of the code

I also wonder if they maybe already have something similar as part of their dev tools

But yes - it would be good if a modder could do it (and i will probably have a go - especially since i'm not too keen on using third party tools)

And only worth the devs having a go if there is interest - but if they already have a similar tool then that could be a nice little thing to squeeze into the expansion or sequel - possibly as an addition to the existing scenario editor - from a brief look, i think it has the facility to inject event based lua code, and so maybe it is possible to adjust the tech tree during a game using that - and maybe that editor would be a good place to add a graphical tech tree editor

Anyway, just thought was something interesting to post, since i had been thinking about how the game can be for newer players (based on a discussion on another thread) - and it seemed that being able to set up simpler tech trees might be a nice feature for those who are less masochistic than the rest of us ;-)

Thanks for the reply :-)