Need help with train station - why stop point is one field off on the other side of the track?

[Regicide]

Hello,

I hope I can explain what I mean: I made a rail + train stop to load stuff out of my furnaces. The train station was on the RIGHT side of the track, and aligned to that all the unloading/loading buildings.

Now, after lot of trouble I decided to change my two-way rail system into one-rail. So the train station needs to be on the other side, LEFT of the track.

But now the placement of the waggons is one field off. I now would need to move all my stuff that is loading/unloading by one field. It's doable, but since it effects all my stations now, a lot of work I really want to avoid.

Anyone know why the stopping point of the train is off by 1 field if you switch the side of the track? I don't understand the sense behind this. Or am I overseeing something pretty easy?

Edit: Here are two screenshots:

So before the change and while everything was two-way rail, train station was on the right:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2278017181

aligning with my builidngs and the loaders.

But now, since one-way I need to place it on the oder side, but now whole train is one off:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2278017137

greetings

[Fel]

The rails are 2x2 in size and stops are by rail instead of by tile.

But locomotives and wagons are 6 tiles long and have 1 tile in between, meaning that the first wagon starts 7 tiles after the stop, and since it's an odd number while rails themselves are multiples of 2 in length...

[Regicide]

I still don't get it while it's different from side to side. Yes the first wagon starts 7 tiles after the stop, that's also the case if you place the station on the other side. But for some strange reason the position of the stop point/the train is 1 off then.

If you place the station exactly opposite, why is it then off, because it's still the same 7 tiles. It's not suddenly 6 or 8.

The Train stops before and a bit below the train station sign, since that sign has a slightly different position when you place it on the other side, the train has to move a bit, too.

But wouldn't it be easier to make the Sign centered, so the train stop point is just mirrored?

Because I thinkt that's the problem here, not that it is even or uneven. Make the train stop exactly on the same spot, no matter if the station is left or right should fix this.

I will try to make another Screenshot with two trains next to each other to show what I mean.

[Nhika]

just put another train so it can go backwards

[guts2501]

I think you just need to lay tracks first then build the loading/unloading station to fit where the train sits. You can always just have a belt turn one square then go back up rather than redoing the whole station if your not OCD about looks. Blueprints are great when you find a set up that works well too. Also is that loader going into the train from krastorio mod?

[Regicide]

Originally posted by guts2501:

I think you just need to lay tracks first then build the loading/unloading station to fit where the train sits.

The track was laid down first, but trains were running two ways, so trainstop was on the other side (first screenshot) where I aligned the loaders like you said. But I need to change the trains to one-way now, because meanwhile I need much more trains then earlier and with two-way signals my trains getting deadlocks all the time. I'm more busy fixing the rail system then playing the game itself.

Originally posted by guts2501:

You can always just have a belt turn one square then go back up rather than redoing the whole station if your not OCD about looks.

Well I do, this is while it ♥♥♥♥♥ me up to move everything one tile to the side now. >_>

Originally posted by guts2501:

Also is that loader going into the train from krastorio mod?

It's not from Krastorio, the Mod's name is "Loader Redux" and ye you can directly load the trains this way with incredible speed.

Originally posted by Nhika:

just put another train so it can go backwards

It was two-way before, I want to change it to one-way now. On early/midgame, two-way did work nice, but now lategame with much more traffic I get deadlocks all the time. There might be a way to fix this, but I tried for hours now so I decided to switch to one-way now.

[Hoki]

the main issue i see is the size of the train you're building this for. due to the fact that you have 5 wagons going (including the train) you end up with an odd numbered lenght due to the 1 tile offset for the connectors (just like fel stated a traincar is treated as a lenght of 7 due to the connector).

if you add one more wagon or another train you end up with an even size which should then line up perfectly again

[Regicide]

Originally posted by Hoki:

the main issue i see is the size of the train you're building this for. due to the fact that you have 5 wagons going (including the train) you end up with an odd numbered lenght due to the 1 tile offset for the connectors (just like fel stated a traincar is treated as a lenght of 7 due to the connector).

if you add one more wagon or another train you end up with an even size which should then line up perfectly again

Well, yes, I do. But well, look yourself:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2278240313

The problem I have now is, if I change the length of the train no by adding on more waggon, it will be uneven on the other station. That's wierd. There must be a way that the spacing is always the same by a one-way direction train :O

[Regicide]

Well no forget this. I finally understand now how this works and there is no way to align this without moving my loaders and warehouses. But okay, I will try to remember this for the future:

Switching from two-way to one-way: Bad! Especially if you were using train station on both sides of the track.

So I think I will just start with one-way next time.

I'm pretty sure it is possible to maintain two-way trains the whole game, but really, I always get somehow somewhere somewhen a deadlock. It seems to be much more complicated then one-way if you need to run a lot of trains at once.

Thanks for the help guys!
(Sadly you can only mark one post as solution, thank you Fel for your answer, too, of course, but Hoki explained it a bit better)

[AlexMBrennan]

I always get somehow somewhere somewhen a deadlock.

There is no reason correctly signalled two way tracks should produce deadlocks - you would use the exact same infrastructure but place a loop after the station.

For the same reason you should not be experiencing any problems if you convert the network later because you are just adding a loop after the station.

[Hoki]

a pure bidirectional setup would mean that all would either have to be set up as loop or never share any rail blocks.

using loops would actually mean you're running one way rails.

as soon as you add a train that shares blocks on their path with other trains you will have a deadlock at some point in a 100% bidirectional setup.

im being emphazising the pure-bd setup as this doesnt include bypass blocks therefore you will end up with trains on collision course and no way to pass one another.

only by adding such bypass blocks (waiting areas) you can prevent such deadlocks but this means that those segments are pretty much one way rails.

if you want bd-setups only then you probably rely on either bots or belts as your main form of transport for the most part of your factory.

bd-setups can save you a ton of ressources in the long run but are rarely worth the headache they cause

[AlexMBrennan]

using loops would actually mean you're running one way rails.

No it doesn't

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2278895645

You can use RORO stations with two way rails, or terminus stations with one way rails, or any other combination thereof.

[Regicide]

Originally posted by Hoki:

bd-setups can save you a ton of ressources in the long run but are rarely worth the headache they cause

That's exactly what I've learned in this playthrough...



@AlexMBrennan Show me a bd Setup that runs 20 trains at the same time connecting 8 Bases/Outposts with a total of 23 Trainstations without any deadlock all the time and I might believe you.

I tried very much and watched vids on YouTube or reading guides on Factorio boards, but even with lots of bypass sections and even two mainrails, there still was at some point a situation when too many trains were travelling at once, they blocked each other.

I don't say it's impossible, I'm even pretty sure there are some brainiacs out there who solve this while sleeping, but for me it's and let me quote Hoki here again: "Not worth the headache" ^^

[Purpleganja]

You can mix everything.
You can have 2 head trains that use one way highways and only local 2ways where traffic is low.
A thing that causes deadlocks is having trains longer than waiting blocks with their tails hanging in the way of other trains.

[Hoki]

Originally posted by AlexMBrennan:

using loops would actually mean you're running one way rails.

No it doesn't

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2278895645

You can use RORO stations with two way rails, or terminus stations with one way rails, or any other combination thereof.

in the context i was using your screenshot is a combination of 2 (partial) loops and a bd rail. ofc you could run signals through the loops themselves just for the purpose of going against the frame of reference i was applying here but that would mean you'd put in more work and ressources than needed just for proofing a point.