Belt Placement Needs Upgraded/Mouse Belt Rotation

[ThomasDiy]

So whenever I place belts on Factorio. I can only place them in one direction. By pressing 'R' I can change the rotation of the belts. I believe that you should be able to place belts by holding control or shift while moving your mouse. What this essentially does is if you go left, down, right and up with the movement of your mouse while holding control or shift. You can draw a circle out of belt without the need to press 'R' and rotate its direction. Imagine how easy building a belt balancer would be by just pressing and holding control or shift without ever rotating the belt. Or by pressing 'R' again. Traditional belt placement would remain the same and players could still use 'R' for belt placement.

Anybody who likes this ideal say I support below.

[ThomasDiy]

Another ideal could also be when you drag your mouse across existing belt while holding shift or control. It automatically places underground belts without the need to select underground belts from your inventory.

[Hotaka]

Or Shift-Scroll Wheel rotates the item

[ThomasDiy]

Originally posted by Hotaka:

Or Shift-Scroll Wheel rotates the item

It's not the same thing. Think about a spaghetti base and how long it would take place hundreds of belts and rotate them. Now just randomly drag your mouse all over the screen. While holding shift and you could place 1000 belts and every one of them is connected. If you run your mouse over top of an existing belt it automatically inserts an underground belt. What I'm talking about is the biggest update to belts, since splitters received filters. Originally splitters did not have filters. But building spaghetti basis would be super common because it would be very easy for belt placement. As of now most people just build main buses and large-scale basis for efficiency and easy belt placement. Trying to spaghetti belts is slow and time-consuming. You can essentially build a massive base and half of the time with an update like this. Another ideal would be pressing a number on your keyboard for how wide to place the belt. If I wanted to place belts four wide. I could press "4" and now lay down four rows of belts at one time. The game is due a belt upgrade.

[Hedning]

You only need 90degree turns, both of which takes one command. The biggest change would be the automatic undergrounds. Once you get used to the shortcuts 90 degree turns are pretty much as fast as dragging with the mouse would be.

I don't agree that your spaghetti vs bus argument is valid. Bus designs have lots more undergrounds so they would benefit more.

Shift is already used for bot placement, but there are plenty of buttos to chose from so that's not a problem.

The game "mindustry" has a similar system to what you are suggesting. I think adding it would be an improvement. Alternatively they could copy the track laying system and use it for belts too.

[KatherineOfSky]

Originally posted by Hedning:

The game "mindustry" has a similar system to what you are suggesting. I think adding it would be an improvement. Alternatively they could copy the track laying system and use it for belts too.

That was the reference that came to mind with the belt suggestions. However, I find Mindustry annoying in terms belt placement because of NOT being able to use R. (Too many mouse moves), and the Ctrl drag always puts the corner where I don't want it.

One of the frustrations I have is being unable to drag a belt backwards... you have to drag it the direction you want it

I wish Mindustry was more like Factorio, not the other way around.

[tom]

tbh, i'd like to have both minindustry and factory placement styles with a key fro switching between of the two.
some times, minindustry one is better, sometimes, it only gets into the way (mostly when you need to place one single belt or are trying something particular

[Hedning]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

I wish Mindustry was more like Factorio, not the other way around.

My agreement was contingent on it being a "mode" that required a button press like holding ctrl. Backwards belt laying capabilities is of course a must.

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

One of the frustrations I have is being unable to drag a belt backwards... you have to drag it the direction you want it

You can drag a belt backwards in mindustry. First drag the belt and before letting go of the placement button use the mouse wheel to turn the belt around. You can even make a row of belts all pointing sideways with a single drag if you want.

The way factorio does it does however feel more intuitive for me. But keybinds that lets you turn all belts laid with the current drag operation 90 degrees per press could shave off a few seconds here and there.

And while we are at it lets copy how buildings are placed from zero-k so you can drag place them with adjustable spacing.

Or at least let us put more than one belt at a time by adjusting the "brush" size with +- like you can do with landfill/concrete/etc.

For a game like this there will always be something that could be improved.

[KatherineOfSky]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

One of the frustrations I have is being unable to drag a belt backwards... you have to drag it the direction you want it

You can drag a belt backwards in mindustry. First drag the belt and before letting go of the placement button use the mouse wheel to turn the belt around. You can even make a row of belts all pointing sideways with a single drag if you want.

The way factorio does it does however feel more intuitive for me. But keybinds that lets you turn all belts laid with the current drag operation 90 degrees per press could shave off a few seconds here and there.

And while we are at it lets copy how buildings are placed from zero-k so you can drag place them with adjustable spacing.

Or at least let us put more than one belt at a time by adjusting the "brush" size with +- like you can do with landfill/concrete/etc.

For a game like this there will always be something that could be improved.

Thanks!

The "brush" you talk about is within a couple of mods already. I think there is definitely such a thing as "too much QoL" with games, and belt brushes, brushed corners, auto-undergroundies is definitely crossing that line for me. (Though everyone has their own limits)

At some point it takes away strategy and challenge from the game.

[ThomasDiy]

Not familiar with mindustry.

But to simplify this I'm not saying we should do away with the current belt placement system. As of right now you basically press and hold your left mouse button in order to place belt. If you want to rotate your belt you basically press R.

So if you would hold your left mouse button and draw a circle all the belt is going to be in one direction. Which means items cannot flow on the belt.

The improvement that I'm proposing is if you press and hold control while making a circle the belt will point in the direction in which your mouse is moving. Meaning that you can build belts where items will automatically flow without the need to rotate your belt.

As of right now if you're placing belt and then you need to do underground belt you must select underground belt then click two times to place it. What I'm proposing is press control drag your mouse across whatever then underground belt is automatically placed. Without needing to select it from your inventory or toolbar.

If you press and hold control you can also press one through eight to change the wide of the belt. If you want to place belt eight wide you hold control and press the number eight to make it eight wide. The moment you release control your back to the current standard belt placement. If you don't like the ideal the only thing you have to do is not pressure control key when placing belt.

But just think about doing a 90° turn on a main bus eight wide it takes about 5 minutes with construction robots. You can essentially press and hold control hit 8 then make a 90° turn eight belts wide in under 10 seconds. This essentially does away with the need for belt related blueprints.

Some you guys are saying this is how mindustry works. Basically what I'm proposing is your able to toggle between mindustry and factorio by pressing a control key.

Couple people I know believe that belt placement should be similar to rail placement. You should also be able to drag and move belts and rails in ghost mode. Tool similar to this exist within city skylines for road construction.

[KatherineOfSky]

Originally posted by ThomasDiy:

Not familiar with mindustry.

But to simplify this I'm not saying we should do away with the current belt placement system. As of right now you basically press and hold your left mouse button in order to place belt. If you want to rotate your belt you basically press R.

So if you would hold your left mouse button and draw a circle all the belt is going to be in one direction. Which means items cannot flow on the belt.

The improvement that I'm proposing is if you press and hold control while making a circle the belt will point in the direction in which your mouse is moving. Meaning that you can build belts where items will automatically flow without the need to rotate your belt.

As of right now if you're placing belt and then you need to do underground belt you must select underground belt then click two times to place it. What I'm proposing is press control drag your mouse across whatever then underground belt is automatically placed. Without needing to select it from your inventory or toolbar.

If you press and hold control you can also press one through eight to change the wide of the belt. If you want to place belt eight wide you hold control and press the number eight to make it eight wide. The moment you release control your back to the current standard belt placement. If you don't like the ideal the only thing you have to do is not pressure control key when placing belt.

But just think about doing a 90° turn on a main bus eight wide it takes about 5 minutes with construction robots. You can essentially press and hold control hit 8 then make a 90° turn eight belts wide in under 10 seconds. This essentially does away with the need for belt related blueprints.

Some you guys are saying this is how mindustry works. Basically what I'm proposing is your able to toggle between mindustry and factorio by pressing a control key.

Couple people I know believe that belt placement should be similar to rail placement. You should also be able to drag and move belts and rails in ghost mode. Tool similar to this exist within city skylines for road construction.

Couple points:
- There are very few situations, (if any at all), where you would need to "draw a belt in a circle". Also, you will find that in other games, such as Anno, and any games where you build roads, you will only be given the option to place 2 segments at a time because mousing is hard and getting exactly on the tile you need takes a huge amount of coordination that most people don't have. Just think about how this circle is defined.... every movement you make is a belt? e.g. like a Paint program. or does it somehow compensate for tiny variations? How does it decide on where to put the corner, etc? What you're asking for is a LOT more complicated than you realize.

- Undergrounds: with Factorio, you might not WANT to build an underground across, you might want to drag a belt and have stuff sideloading into it,. You might want to underground 2 tiles instead of 4, or 6 tiles. How does the simulation decide?

- RR Placement: Try 1.1.x, it has the belt "long brush", which is ish similar. I personally don't find that terribly useful since I prefer exact placement and brush my belts, but some might find it suits their playstyle.

[ThomasDiy]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

Originally posted by ThomasDiy:

Not familiar with mindustry.

But to simplify this I'm not saying we should do away with the current belt placement system. As of right now you basically press and hold your left mouse button in order to place belt. If you want to rotate your belt you basically press R.

So if you would hold your left mouse button and draw a circle all the belt is going to be in one direction. Which means items cannot flow on the belt.

The improvement that I'm proposing is if you press and hold control while making a circle the belt will point in the direction in which your mouse is moving. Meaning that you can build belts where items will automatically flow without the need to rotate your belt.

As of right now if you're placing belt and then you need to do underground belt you must select underground belt then click two times to place it. What I'm proposing is press control drag your mouse across whatever then underground belt is automatically placed. Without needing to select it from your inventory or toolbar.

If you press and hold control you can also press one through eight to change the wide of the belt. If you want to place belt eight wide you hold control and press the number eight to make it eight wide. The moment you release control your back to the current standard belt placement. If you don't like the ideal the only thing you have to do is not pressure control key when placing belt.

But just think about doing a 90° turn on a main bus eight wide it takes about 5 minutes with construction robots. You can essentially press and hold control hit 8 then make a 90° turn eight belts wide in under 10 seconds. This essentially does away with the need for belt related blueprints.

Some you guys are saying this is how mindustry works. Basically what I'm proposing is your able to toggle between mindustry and factorio by pressing a control key.

Couple people I know believe that belt placement should be similar to rail placement. You should also be able to drag and move belts and rails in ghost mode. Tool similar to this exist within city skylines for road construction.

Couple points:
- There are very few situations, (if any at all), where you would need to "draw a belt in a circle". Also, you will find that in other games, such as Anno, and any games where you build roads, you will only be given the option to place 2 segments at a time because mousing is hard and getting exactly on the tile you need takes a huge amount of coordination that most people don't have. Just think about how this circle is defined.... every movement you make is a belt? e.g. like a Paint program. or does it somehow compensate for tiny variations? How does it decide on where to put the corner, etc? What you're asking for is a LOT more complicated than you realize.

- Undergrounds: with Factorio, you might not WANT to build an underground across, you might want to drag a belt and have stuff sideloading into it,. You might want to underground 2 tiles instead of 4, or 6 tiles. How does the simulation decide?

- RR Placement: Try 1.1.x, it has the belt "long brush", which is ish similar. I personally don't find that terribly useful since I prefer exact placement and brush my belts, but some might find it suits their playstyle.

If you're trying to sideload you would just release the control key. I'm using a circle as an example. Go build yourself a standard 4x4 belt balancer count how many times you have to hit R on your keyboard.

Under my proposal I would place five splitters. Then I would hold down the control key and click four times to connect the balancers. Finally two clicks for the underground belts while having standard belt selected.

Just remember a feature like this only works when the control key is being pressed. There is no changes on how belts work.

Feature like this is very useful early game before there's construction robots. It would be most useful for belt balancers things of that nature.

[tom]

Originally posted by Hedning:

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

I wish Mindustry was more like Factorio, not the other way around.

My agreement was contingent on it being a "mode" that required a button press like holding ctrl. Backwards belt laying capabilities is of course a must.

this. this so much.
minindustry is cool but god if i hate not being able to place backwise belts

[PunCrathod]

Originally posted by KatherineOfSky:

I think there is definitely such a thing as "too much QoL" with games, and belt brushes, brushed corners, auto-undergroundies is definitely crossing that line for me. (Though everyone has their own limits)

At some point it takes away strategy and challenge from the game.

At some point yes. But I think that as long as it does not take away the need to think of what needs to go where then making it easier and faster to put the things where you want isn't a bad change.

Tough now that I think about it most of the stuff that people want to make easier in this thread already has a solution. Use the blueprint tool. If you want to have a 5x5 belt brush just lay down 5x5 belts and ctrl+c. If you think making balancers is tedious because you cant just drag around belts then make a blueprint of that balancer. You can even set a custom grid snap for blueprints to make lining them up easier. And if it takes 10 minutes for bots to build your blueprints that is your own fault for using a giant robonetwork instead small ones or even personal roboports.

[KatherineOfSky]

Originally posted by PunCrathod:

Tough now that I think about it most of the stuff that people want to make easier in this thread already has a solution. Use the blueprint tool. If you want to have a 5x5 belt brush just lay down 5x5 belts and ctrl+c. If you think making balancers is tedious because you cant just drag around belts then make a blueprint of that balancer. You can even set a custom grid snap for blueprints to make lining them up easier. And if it takes 10 minutes for bots to build your blueprints that is your own fault for using a giant robonetwork instead small ones or even personal roboports.

Indeed. There are already much easier solutions in game. (Easier, as in "the devs don't have to write additional code for problems that already have easy solutions")

As to the standard 4x4 belt balancers: I never "squiggle", I press R only one time for each direction, so I think my solution is even less clicks/movements than the OP talked about in post #12. (This is, of course, pre-bots). However, you can also get the Nanobots mod to do the building for you in early game, and I find that to be a very easy solution, especially if one has hand problems, etc.